Where's the best place to go for a new PC?

[CharlieAddict]

PC Advisor has an up-to-date Top 5 budget desktops here http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/index.cfm?reviewid=2025

 

[Sunray]

PC Advisor has an up-to-date Top 5 budget desktops here http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/index.cfm?reviewid=2025

I'd not recommend a desktop any more unless you want to build it yourself.

The flexibility of a laptop and keen pricing makes it the better purchase these days. Desktops are for Crysis players with everything on Very High or Photoshop people who want to edit raw images from a 25MP large format camera.

 

[Emerald Toucan]

Yeah avoid Dell, shit componants and not very upgradable in the future.

You could try Overclockers
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/syscon_category.php?groupid=43&catid=1077

Or Scan
http://3xs.scan.co.uk/

As others have suggested, the best approach is to build it yourself. You get the best components, and you can overclock to achieve even more bang for your buck. A basic PC build is straight forward enough and there are plenty of guides online.

Be warned though, it's seriously addictive.

 

[hiccup]

I got a PC from Mesh a couple of months ago, been very happy with it.

 

[FaradayCaged]

Be warned though, it's seriously addictive.

haha once you get into it aswell its like a game of chess.. thinking 'x' many moves ahead with what your buying knowing its compatable with what you got instore for your next upgrade or two

 

[CharlieAddict]

any instructions on how to overclock?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Depends what chip and motherboard you're using. Not to mention what RAM you're using if you're going to push the envelope a bit.

 

[Chz]

Dell doesn't use non-standard components, and hasn't for years. They cost them more! They use low-end stuff from well-known manufacturers.

Look, I've built PCs for myself and others since the 80s. But lately, I spec a Dell and add/replace one or two components. Usually the graphics card. I just wait until they've got one of the regular double the RAM for free deals and don't worry about the charges for that. Why? Frequently (though not always) it ends up cheaper. And as someone's pointed out, it's nice to have a warranty on the system and not have to worry about shipping random parts around.

I'll grant their customer service isn't all that, but it's still better than I've had from Ebuyer, Overclockers, Dabs, etc.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Yah, Dell went through a bad patch and it always takes a company a long time to recover from that sort of reputation, but they're pretty reliable now, and customer service is... no worse than average, put it that way.

 

[stdPikachu]

Yah, Dell went through a bad patch and it always takes a company a long time to recover from that sort of reputation, but they're pretty reliable now, and customer service is... no worse than average, put it that way.

Same opinion here. Dell are no better or worse than any other large-scale x86 hardware provider. Given a price bracket I prefer HP machines though (but again, have only ever bought from their business line). IMHO, HP servers knock Dell into a hatted cock as well.</derail>

 

[AndrewNumLock]

Again, thanks for the help. I'm now pretty much dead cert I'll be building my own PC. I will be using if for a bit of recording, but mainly I'm thinking about production programmes like Reason, it works a little on my current computer, but it can't cope with much.

My plan is to follow similar specs to the PC I was going to buy of dell and then hopefully be pleasantly pleased with any money saved.

if i had £750 i would do this

buy one of these http://microdirect.co.uk/(18216)Asus-Motherboard-P5KC-Intel-P35-LGA775-Core2.aspx

and one of these http://microdirect.co.uk/(19965)Intel-CPU-Core-2-Duo-E6850-30GHz-1333FSB.aspx

one of these http://microdirect.co.uk/(14190)Creative-Soundblaster-XFi-Series-Extreme-Music-OEM.aspx

one of these http://microdirect.co.uk/(28369)Sapphire-ATi-Radeon-HD-3850-512MB-GDDR3-PCIE.aspx

3 of these http://microdirect.co.uk/(19960)OCZ-1GB-Platinum-Edition-Memory-DDR3-1333MHz.aspx

one of these to store stuff in http://microdirect.co.uk/(16077)Samsung-500GB-SATA-II-300-Hard-Disk-Drive.aspx

one of these to power all your gear http://microdirect.co.uk/(15483)Atrix-720W-Black-Silent-PSU-12cm-Fan.aspx

one of these snazzy things to chuck all you stuff into http://microdirect.co.uk/(21406)NZXT-Case-Duet-Silver-ATX-midi-tower-desktop.aspx

EDIT: in fact you could leave out the sound card as it looks the mobo has a hd 7.1 ss built in

Nice one man, I've been going through your suggstions using them as a guide. £588.93 altogether (that's minus the soundcard), add a £100 or so for a monitor (which I need), and that's a tenner under £700 for a vastly more powerful PC than the XPS at dell.co.uk going for £699! Boo yeah!

A couple of questions. Because that motherboard comes with an soundcard does that mean I won't be able to install another at a later date? And do you reckon the one it has would be decent enough for my recording / bit of music production needs?

Thanks.

 

[Sunray]

The sound card on the motherboard are OK for general playing games and stuff. You will hit their limit as soon as you switch the PC on.

I recommend a pro audio sound card then you'll not be getting pissed off all the time.

Something like one of these

http://www.musiconmypc.co.uk/shop.php/cPath/43

 

[Bob_the_lost]

I would advise against some of the stuff there. DO NOT get 3 sticks of RAM, either get 2x2GB, 2x1GB or 4x1GB, Hell, 2x1GB + 512x2GB is a better mix than 3x1GB. You'd lose the dual channel aspect which is a small but detectable performance hit.

Do not get the 6850, good chip but hotter and slower than an 8XXX serries.

The motherboard is a place to save money if you want, don't know that model but Asus are reliable.

That PSU should be avoided like the plague. 720W for £45? Bollocks it will, you're looking at a 100W computer so buy a quality 350W PSU.

 

[CharlieAddict]

That PSU should be avoided like the plague. 720W for £45? Bollocks it will, you're looking at a 100W computer so buy a quality 350W PSU.

how do you determine how much wattage is required?

 

[ExtraRefined]

how do you determine how much wattage is required?

Find the power consumption of the CPU & GPU, 10W per HDD and 50W for everything else.

65+95+1*10+50 = 220W

You'd actually want a PSU rated at about 50% more than this for a couple of reasons. Obviously PSUs are more reliable if they're not fully loaded, and are also most efficient at about 60% load. Also, the quoted power is generally across all rails, whereas in practice all the load is on the 12v rail

 

[Sunray]

Some motherboards take 100w or more, depending on how hard your clocking the CPU.

Most PSU's require you to run them at 80% or less of maximum capacity, unless you spend loads. My Corsair can be driven at 100% but it cost me 100 quid.

 

[ExtraRefined]

Some motherboards take 100w or more, depending on how hard your clocking the CPU.

Of course if you're OCing, you'll need to recalculate the CPU power consumption too - increase in power consumption is equal to increase in clock * (increase in vcore)^2, IIRC.

 

[Chz]

Same opinion here. Dell are no better or worse than any other large-scale x86 hardware provider. Given a price bracket I prefer HP machines though (but again, have only ever bought from their business line). IMHO, HP servers knock Dell into a hatted cock as well.</derail>

Servers, no question. It's the one part of Compaq that HP didn't gut. I do prefer Dell's options on the desktop front though. And I think Latitudes are vastly better than the HP equivalent.

 

[FaradayCaged]

I would advise against some of the stuff there. DO NOT get 3 sticks of RAM, either get 2x2GB, 2x1GB or 4x1GB, Hell, 2x1GB + 512x2GB is a better mix than 3x1GB. You'd lose the dual channel aspect which is a small but detectable performance hit.

The motherboard is a place to save money if you want, don't know that model but Asus are reliable.

I disagree with ram argument, out of all those combo's you posted i would slightly agree with the ''2x1GB + 2x512mb'' however having 4gb's in any 32bit machine is a complete waste.

The mobo is very very good for the money, its dual support supporting ddr2 and ddr3 ram, and the ram i selected is high quality (for the money) 1.3ghz DDR3. With this mobo and your price range, i still stand by having 3 x 1gb of ddr3. The difference of not having dual channel on the one stick is IMO anyway

Do not get the 6850, good chip but hotter and slower than an 8XXX serries.

you're looking at a 100W computer so buy a quality 350W PSU.

considering one of the Radeon HD 3850's system requirements is at least a 450w psu you tihnk its advisable telling him to get a 350w one? Mybe the choice of psu is a bit shit... maybe this one instead? http://microdirect.co.uk/(31044)Corsair-PSU-450W-VX450W-ATX12V-v22-5-year.aspx

I find that most psu's regardless of the make as long as they dont cost less than £25 are fine for almost everything.

I agree wih the cpu, i didnt realise the 8400 was around the same price as the 6850.

http://microdirect.co.uk/(30941)Intel-CPU-Core-2-Duo-E8400-30GHz-1333FSB.aspx

^Andrew get that one instead

EDIT: oh and yes, to your question about being able to add a soundcard later on if the onboard one is not that good. most soundcards are PCI cards, simply a case of slotting it in

 

[stdPikachu]

Servers, no question. It's the one part of Compaq that HP didn't gut. I do prefer Dell's options on the desktop front though. And I think Latitudes are vastly better than the HP equivalent.

Really?! I've got a couple of HP nx7400's, best business laptop I've ever used. The Latitude D620 I got from work has the most god-awful scratchpad I've ever seen and the case gets scruffier alot quicker.

IBM servers make the ProLiants look like shit though, they're really quite cute. Even if they do take two minutes to boot the RAID card...

Why the hell would you want a motherboard with DDR3? It's about nine jillion times the price of DDR2 and has negligible performance benefits - nothing something other than a die-hard overclocker would want. IMHO best value 775 mobos out at the moment are the gigabyte EP35-DS3 series. I think.

4GB in a 32bit computer isn't a complete waste - you'll usually get to use 3.5GB of it, and when you do finally get a 64bit OS you'll get the whole 4GB, and you'd have had the dual channel advantage all along. My workstation dual boots XP32 and 64bit Ubuntu, it's got 8GB of RAM (maximum the motherboards supports) and windows certainly doesn't give a crap. Last time I looked, 4GB RAM cost me about £60 for two 2GB DIMMs whereas opting for a 2x1024 and a 2x512 kit would be much more expensive. Serisouly, there's no downside to putting too much memory in your machine. You can never have too much memory.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

I disagree with ram argument, out of all those combo's you posted i would slightly agree with the ''2x1GB + 2x512mb'' however having 4gb's in any 32bit machine is a complete waste.

The mobo is very very good for the money, its dual support supporting ddr2 and ddr3 ram, and the ram i selected is high quality (for the money) 1.3ghz DDR3. With this mobo and your price range, i still stand by having 3 x 1gb of ddr3. The difference of not having dual channel on the one stick is IMO anyway

You do know the performance difference between DDR2(800) and 3(1333) don't you. About 2-5% for which you're advocating wasting £150!?!? (ok, so only wasting about £115) and when by sacrificing dual channel you're halving the memory bandwidth!? I'll go further, to use that in that system would be utter lunacy. You don't lose it on one stick, you lose it on all three.

Start with 2x1GB of DDR 5300 (667) for about £30-£35. If more RAM is needed slot more in. That same money will take the OP to a 24" LCD which will make a real difference to the experience as opposed to dropping performance a few percent.

That motherboard is an impressive creature, but if the features aren't going to be used, what's the point?

considering one of the Radeon HD 3850's system requirements is at least a 450w psu you tihnk its advisable telling him to get a 350w one? Mybe the choice of psu is a bit shit... maybe this one instead? http://microdirect.co.uk/(31044)Corsair-PSU-450W-VX450W-ATX12V-v22-5-year.aspx

I find that most psu's regardless of the make as long as they dont cost less than £25 are fine for almost everything.

Yeah that'd do, the 450W is needless padding designed so oldschool PSUs that didn't rate the 12v rail very highly would still work. As such a current generation 350W will have all the juice needed.

I much prefer a good brand name low wattage PSU to a cheap POS one that lies about it's output potential, one is far more likely than the other to explode a year down the line.


Why are we talking seperate graphics again? What's wrong with integrated?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

how do you determine how much wattage is required?

Practice, look at review sites that show power consumption at max load. Odds are i'm slightly out on the numbers here, you're probably looking at 150W max with the 3850.

(No way the 3850 is a 95W part?)

 

[FaradayCaged]

It's about nine jillion times the price of DDR2

£48 for 1gb of pc10666 (1.33gz) ddr3, how is that 9 jillion times the price

 

[FaradayCaged]

You do know the performance difference between DDR2(800) and 3(1333) don't you. About 2-5% for which you're advocating wasting £150!?!? (ok, so only wasting about £115) and when by sacrificing dual channel you're halving the memory bandwidth!? I'll go further, to use that in that system would be utter lunacy. You don't lose it on one stick, you lose it on all three.

Start with 2x1GB of DDR 5300 (667) for about £30-£35. If more RAM is needed slot more in. That same money will take the OP to a 24" LCD which will make a real difference to the experience as opposed to dropping performance a few percent.

That motherboard is an impressive creature, but if the features aren't going to be used, what's the point?


Yeah that'd do, the 450W is needless padding designed so oldschool PSUs that didn't rate the 12v rail very highly would still work. As such a current generation 350W will have all the juice needed.

I much prefer a good brand name low wattage PSU to a cheap POS one that lies about it's output potential, one is far more likely than the other to explode a year down the line.


Why are we talking seperate graphics again? What's wrong with integrated?

ok, but i still think the mobo is a good idea as its very upgradable in the future. Seperate graphics becuase intergrated sucks balls, it will struggle to run Aero. That being said a HD3850 just for aero is way too much, but if Andrew decides to buy a nice new game for his new machine then it would look

 

[stdPikachu]

£48 for 1gb of pc10666 (1.33gz) ddr3, how is that 9 jillion times the price

It's more expensive than DDR2 that performs just as well, so it might as well be nine jillion times the price. The only people buying at the moment are overclockers and e-peeners. Everyone else is sucking up 4GB dual channel kits for £50 a pop.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

For £750? What can he buy - a Mac branded calculator maybe

I got a mini mac for £500. Does everything and more than i'll ever need.

 

[ExtraRefined]

than i'll ever need.

Lucky you. Meanwhile, for those of us who like such features as decent sized hard drives and upgradeable RAM, Apple's offerings are rather limited.

 

[AndrewNumLock]

Okay. I've decidied I need to cut down a bit, I'm worried that I'm going to get carried away and end up with a massively powerful computer that I won't make use of. I want to play the occasional graphics intensive video game, but I'm not too worried if it's the most incredible thing ever (I have a 360 which I don't use that much, and don't use my current computer for games at all.)

http://microdirect.co.uk/(21206)Asus-Motherboard-P5BSE-P965-LGA775-Core2.aspx

What do you guys think of this motherboard?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Looks fine to me. Not sure how good that onboard audio chip is but since you're probably getting a separate card anyway it's irrelevant.

 

[AndrewNumLock]

Okay, proposed specification, everything is in the basket waiting to be bought:


Corsair PSU 450W VX450W ATX12V v2.2 5 year manufacturer's warranty (PSUCORVX450)
£34.20

Intel CPU Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz 1333FSB LGA775 6MB cache Retail inc.Fan (3yr Manufacturers Warranty) (CPUIP4775E8400)
£109.99

Asus Motherboard P5B-SE P965 LGA775 Core2 Quad / Extreme / Core2 Duo 1333FSB ATX (MOTASUP5BSE)
£39.95

OCZ 2GB Kit (2x1024) Platinum Series DDR2 PC6400 800MHz Dual Channel Memory Rev. 2 With Platinum Heatspreader (MEMOCZPLK2048R2
£27.50

Coolermaster Elite 340 Black / silver midi tower case micro ATX NO PSU (Requires standard ATX PS2) (CASCOORC340)
£21.95

Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Series Xtreme Music 24 Bit PCI OEM (SOUCREXFIXTREM*)
£46.20

Sapphire ATi Radeon HD 3470 256MB DDR2 PCI-E DVI Retail (VIDSAPHD3470256)
£34.10

Digimate 20" 8ms Widescreen L-2041W DVI Multimedia TFT Monitor Black (3yr Manufacturer's Warranty) (MON20DML2041WD)
£87.99

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 32 Bit OEM (WINDOWS-KEY IS DISPLAYED ON OUTER PACKAGING, PLEASE KEEP SAFE) (SOFMICWVISHP)
£51.99

500 GB Seagate Barracuda ATA100 7200rpm 8MB cache Hard Drive oem (Manufacturer's 5yr Warranty) (HAR500SEAID728)
£42.99

Lite-on DVD DH-20A4P-09C 20x +/- R/RW RAM beige and black bezels Retail (DVDLIT20A4P09C)
£18.59

Total: £605.65


What do you guys think? I wanted to cut down my spending to about £600, so I think I've done well. Any areas where you think it be worth me spending a bit of extra cash? Maybe a bit more RAM? Because that's only 2GB at the moment. Do the sound card and video cards look okay?

Thanks!