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when you look at books

According to Merriam-Webster it's been in use since the 14th century.

:)

yes, a hell of a lot of 'americanisms' are words and phrases that fell out of use among the english but continued over there. Regardless of use or origin some words can be considered americanisms simply because they aren't common british usage today and are common american usage. Dictionaries do not define discourse, merely document the words used in it. Protest is not a transitive verb:mad:
 
And if I want baroque I want proper baroque, rich in textures and imagery, bombast, pomp and drama not alot of piss about male spiders or mountain climbers ffs.
 
yes, a hell of a lot of 'americanisms' are words and phrases that fell out of use among the english but continued over there. Regardless of use or origin some words can be considered americanisms simply because they aren't common british usage today and are common american usage. Dictionaries do not define discourse, merely document the words used in it. Protest is not a transitive verb:mad:

whatever, the metaphors and imagery in that passage are cliched shite and more importantly are being used to artificially bulk up an utterly inane point about the nature of freedom. Profound only to those to whom Catcher in the Rye is a classic satire of bourgeois moral hypocrisy.
 
I don't like brutal simplicity but neither do i appreciate choking upon inane dribble masquerading as profound behind a series of clunky, cliched metaphors. That passage you posted is self indulgent shit without the excuse of being teenage poetry.

Well we'll agree to disagree then, in that I'll take the good writing of Richard Adams, over the opinions of ye who spends your time winding up people on the footie forum. Clunky and Cliched are rather innapropriate descriptors for metaphors, if they're old and done they are simply 'dead' metaphors. And when Richie was writing they were not. I'm sorry if you've read a legion of imtators and plagiarists and this ruins the passage for you.
Self indulgence, well perhaps that is the context issue. It might aid you to read the book, or the wiki precis of the book.
 
And if I want baroque I want proper baroque, rich in textures and imagery, bombast, pomp and drama not alot of piss about male spiders or mountain climbers ffs.

Overdone you mean.:D

we aren't going to agree here. Your idea of what constitutes good writing is clearly not mine.
 
whatever, the metaphors and imagery in that passage are cliched shite and more importantly are being used to artificially bulk up an utterly inane point about the nature of freedom. Profound only to those to whom Catcher in the Rye is a classic satire of bourgeois moral hypocrisy.

yeah yeah, and Manchester United are the greatest team that evr strode the earth:rolleyes:

Profundity is in the mind of the reader not the opinion from the fundament of an internet poster
 
In my experience people who say "look at books" are people like my Gran, who truly believe that if they think they'll do themselves a terrible injury.

And if you're going to make a little bit of effort to read a book, why would you want to avoid making a teensy bit more, and miss out on the narrative and even the structure?
 
Well we'll agree to disagree then, in that I'll take the good writing of Richard Adams, over the opinions of ye who spends your time winding up people on the footie forum. Clunky and Cliched are rather innapropriate descriptors for metaphors, if they're old and done they are simply 'dead' metaphors. And when Richie was writing they were not. I'm sorry if you've read a legion of imtators and plagiarists and this ruins the passage for you.
Self indulgence, well perhaps that is the context issue. It might aid you to read the book, or the wiki precis of the book.

ah yes i forgot what a prententious elitist cunt you are, ofcourse football is for lumpen idiots not fit to pass comment on your cerebral pursuits.

the deadness of a metaphor says nothing of it's 'clunk' and cliche is a much better term than dead as the problem is that the phrase or metaphor is very much still alive and in use to the point of losing it's descriptive force.

also wasn't that published in the 70's, I severly doubt it wasn't cliched shit even then.
 
An excuse to post this most poetic bit of prose from Plague Dogs

Freedom-that consuming goal above doubt or criticism, desired as moths desire the candle or emigrants the distant continent waiting to parch them in its deserts or drive them to madness in its bitter winters! Freedom, that land where rogues, at every corner, cozen with lies and promises the plucky sheep who judged it time to sack the shepherd! Unfurl your banner, Freedom, and call upon me with cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer and all kinds of music to fall down and worship you, and I will do so upon the instant, for who would wish to be cast into the fiery furnace of his neighbour’s contempt?

I will come to you as the male spider to the female, as the explorer to the upper reaches of the great river upon which he knows he will die before ever he wins through to the estuary. How should I dare refuse your beckoning, queen whose discarded lovers vanish by night, princess whose unsuccessful suitors die at sunset? Would to God we had never encountered you, goddess of thrombosis, insomnia, asthma, duodenal and migraine! For we are free-free to suffer every anguish of deliberation, of decisions which must be made upon suspect information and half-knowledge, every anguish of hindsight and regret, of failure, shame and responsibility for all that we have brought upon ourselves and others: free to struggle, to starve, to demand from all one last, supreme effort to reach where we long to be and, once there, to conclude that it is not, after all, the right place.

For a great price obtained I this freedom, to wish to God I had died by the hand of the Lord in the land of Egypt, when I sat by the fleshpots and ate bread to the full. The tyrant wasn’t such a bad old bugger, and even his arbitrary rages never killed as many as died in yesterday’s glorious battle for liberty. Will you return to him, then? Ah no, sweet Freedom, I will slave for you until I have forgotten the love that once consumed my being, until I am grown old and bitter and can no longer see the wood for the starved, dirty trees. Then I will curse you and die; and will you then concede that I may be accounted your loyal follower and a true creature of the earth? And, Freedom, was I free?



the plucky sheep
:eek:

Unfurl your banner, Freedom,
:eek:


goddess of thrombosis, insomnia, asthma, duodenal and migraine!
:eek:

Ah no, sweet Freedom, I will slave for you until I have forgotten the love that once consumed my being,
:eek:


Ho-lee shit!:D
 
ah yes i forgot what a prententious elitist cunt you are, ofcourse football is for lumpen idiots not fit to pass comment on your cerebral pursuits.

the deadness of a metaphor says nothing of it's 'clunk' and cliche is a much better term than dead as the problem is that the phrase or metaphor is very much still alive and in use to the point of losing it's descriptive force.

also wasn't that published in the 70's, I severly doubt it wasn't cliched shit even then.


It's a shame I don't have any irish heritage to call on so you can round on me as a 'plastic paddie'

An over-used or obvious metaphor is by description a dead metaphor, as for the 'clunk' well that's a matter of opinion and not to be decided by your expletive laden opinions.
 
It's like something Ignatius from a Confederacy of Dunces would have written if he'd been utterly devoid of self awareness and coked off his tits for two weeks.
 
well that's a matter of opinion and not to be decided by your expletive laden opinions

so it's a matter of opinion (a cliched phrase itself) that is not decided by opinions?

:D
 
so it's a matter of opinion (a cliched phrase itself) that is not decided by opinions?

:D

You have your opinion. It aint the deciding opinion. Mine is the deciding opinion and when I rule the earth you'll be in a gulag copying out the above text untill you die of old age
 
You have your opinion. It aint the deciding opinion. Mine is the deciding opinion and when I rule the earth you'll be in a gulag copying out the above text untill you die of old age

I'd rather be resentfully copying it out in a gulag than imprisoned in a mind that freely appreciated it.
 
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