When there is an accident on the motorway...

[GarfieldLeChat]

I highlighted it for you and still you're incapable of understanding what I posted. I won't bother wasting my time on you any more. Comprende?

and i highlight why you were not abiding by the highway code do you Comprende...

 

[free spirit]

and i highlight why you were not abiding by the highway code do you Comprende...

erm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyUK
no, just check your blindspots, please

I do, but because I constantly check my mirrors I know if someone is hovering in my blindspot.

reads to me as if soulman's saying he does check his blind spot before moving onto say that because he uses his mirrors constantly he knows if someone's in the blind spot.

don't know that the kick off was for - IMO if you use your mirrors properly on the motorway you should generally either know for sure there can't be anything there (as you've been watching the cars in all 3 lanes for a couple of minutes and they're all still there) or you should know if you've been distracted and couldn't say for sure... either way you should generally always have a look in case, but if you rely on this and don't keep up with what's going on in your mirrors you're gonna be fucked if you need to dive into the next lane in an emergency as some dick in a lorry cuts you up.

 

[free spirit]

motorway crashes I've had 2 near misses,

first one I was at fault, heading down the a1 late one night on a glasto mission I found myself on one of the newly created 3 lane bits of the A1, which had opened since the last time I was on there so I'd just assumed we'd hit the motorway bit and it was 3 lanes all the way... accelerated and pulled out to overtake a lorry to see the shocking site of the 3rd lane dissapearing (I'd missed all the signs)... just managed to break and slow down enough to swing back in behind the truck before the lane vanished, but we got to within a foot of the back of the truck

Second time was in a van late night on the m1 overtaking a truck when one of the front tires blew out... somehow managed to control it, avoid the truck and get onto the hard shoulder, but was a bit seat of my pants for a few seconds

 

[detective-boy]

... or you should know if you've been distracted and couldn't say for sure.

Thats the problem with Plan A - we don't realise we have been distracted and if we are not in the habit of always checking our blind spot we move without doing so despite having let something through our mirror checking without realising. There is also scope for something to change lane entirely in your blind spot (e.g. you're in lane 1 of 3, lane 2 is clear, car coming up in lane 3. Enters lane 3 blind spot first (the angles make this inevitable), then moves into lane 2 into the much closer blind spot without ever coming back into your mirror).

Checking blind spot habitually whenever moving lanes at speed is the only answer. Not INSTEAD of using mirrors constantly, but AS WELL AS.

 

[pembrokestephen]

erm...

reads to me as if soulman's saying he does check his blind spot before moving onto say that because he uses his mirrors constantly he knows if someone's in the blind spot.

That's all fine and dandy, and in the majority of cases, will be enough.

But it relies on the infallibility of the driver: first of all, to check the mirrors often enough to have a complete and accurate picture of what's behind him; secondly, that his memory is going to be utterly perfect, such that he doesn't forget on single vehicle (it only takes one!); and thirdly, that his concentration is going to be sufficient that he is able to maintain that mental map, keep it updated, AND attend to the other tasks involved with driving.

Perhaps Soulman has the mental capability to do this flawlessly. In which case, he has a far better brain than me, despite any evidence to the contrary. But he's a fool to be advocating such a complacent approach, and one so dependent on his particularly finely tuned mental faculties, as a general approach in a situation where we're talking about the stupidity of drivers who have crashes.

don't know that the kick off was for - IMO if you use your mirrors properly on the motorway you should generally either know for sure there can't be anything there (as you've been watching the cars in all 3 lanes for a couple of minutes and they're all still there) or you should know if you've been distracted and couldn't say for sure...

"You should generally know" - it's not good enough, really, is it, if we 're talking about, say, a motorcyclist in that blind spot, who could well die if you don't absolutely know? I'm not having a pop at you, personally - but I think the reason a lot of crashes happen on the roads is because of people thinking "Oh, it'll be OK" before diving out into the next lane, pulling out from a side road, or cutting off the corner on the apex of a bend. 99% of the time it is. When it suddenly isn't, these people are shocked, because as far as they were concerned, there "shouldn't have been anything there".

either way you should generally always have a look in case, but if you rely on this and don't keep up with what's going on in your mirrors you're gonna be fucked if you need to dive into the next lane in an emergency as some dick in a lorry cuts you up.

Quite. I don't know what the kick-off was for, but soulman seemed to take enormous exception to this idea. Apparently, for him, mirrors are good enough without having to take half a second to glance over your shoulder, and god help anyone who suggests differently, despite the fact that many clearly experienced, competent drivers did. As have you. Personally, I suspect soulman of secretly doing the "lifesaver", too, but wanting to appear too cool to admit it.

 

[detective-boy]

... there "shouldn't have been anything there".

I always used to despair at the other version of that:

"Oh, there's never been a No Entry Sign (or whatever) there before" from the dozens of sheep-drivers blithely carrying on doing what they've always done before despite there being new prohibitions in place on nice, shiny new signs, with yellow signs drawing attention to changed priorities, etc. and sometimes even temporary folding signs in the roadway they have to drive round ... not just for the first few days but for months and months and months afterwards ...

 

[pembrokestephen]

I always used to despair at the other version of that:

"Oh, there's never been a No Entry Sign (or whatever) there before" from the dozens of sheep-drivers blithely carrying on doing what they've always done before despite there being new prohibitions in place on nice, shiny new signs, with yellow signs drawing attention to changed priorities, etc. and sometimes even temporary folding signs in the roadway they have to drive round ... not just for the first few days but for months and months and months afterwards ...

Yeah. I've seen people going the "wrong way" down a remodelled junction near where I used to live in Tolworth YEARS after it was changed. In fact, I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure I used to see the same car (elderly Rover, driven by some coffin dodger in a flat cap) do the same thing several times.

I wonder, though, if part of the problem is signage overload. I noticed this particularly last night, driving back home from Carmarthen with my Big Beams on, coming through a place called Rhos Goch, which has a crossroads that has had a couple of fatal crashes (I won't use "accidents", dammit). The result is that we now have a 40mph speed limit sign, a nice big "Gyrrwch yn ofalus" sign, TWO enormous route advisory signs, plus lots of chevrons on the way in. The net effect as you round the first bend is of encountering a Jumbo landing with all its lights on, with all the signs reflecting in my lights. I know the road, but I think anyone encountering that for the first time is actually going to experience total confusion, not be aware of any risks. I recognise that the result of that confusion may well be to cause him to slow down, but it contributes to a general sense of information overload, and also leaves a driver suddenly light-blind just at a point where he really could do with being able to see if some numpty has just nosed out of one of the side turnings into his path.

There are other examples on that road, but none quite as ludicrous. And I'll leave the rant about being stuck on a single-carriageway road for 25 miles at 40 behind huge lorries going to the ferry, with only two opportunities for really safe overtaking on the entire length. Grr.

 

[bigbry]

I doubt it son. I've never had an accident, or caused one. You come across as the kind of cunt who gives drivers a bad name!

No you probably haven't had an accident - but I bet you've left a lot behind you as you disappear into the distance with that smug 'Look at me , I'm a perfect driver' look on your face

 

[bigbry]

Mind you another time, I also got "you don't have to indicate on a roundabout when there is no other traffic to see you" to which my reply "there was another vehicle - you" got me more lip, another producer & a breath test.

I had someone ask me once why I signalled on a round about when there was no one about (early hours of morning). I told him I do it every time so that it's a habit - and therefore I should never forget to signal - I was told when I learned to drive that if you always signal and use your mirror regardless of whether there is other traffic it becomes as routine as blinking and breathing.

 

[free spirit]

I just realised why I differ slightly in my habits from you lot, tis because probably 80% of my motorway driving has been done in vans of one type or another where if you do the over the shoulder 'life saver' manouver you get a good view of the side panel of the van but nowt else.

Because of this I tend to watch my mirrors almost constantly and keep a quick mental note of who's doing what where then if I need to pull out / change lanes etc I'll have a good look in the mirrors check nobodies missing and pull out. Generally though because I'm aware of this limitation I'm driving in anticipation mode, watching the traffic far ahead and giving myself loads of time to pull out so that I'll have time to check the mirrors several times before going. If I'm not sure I either won't go or will do my best to get a view in a lean forward over shoulder stylee.

It ain't perfect, but I'm pretty sure I'm a lot safer than say my mum who seems to get to someone she wants to overtake, then start looking in her mirrors / look over her shoulder.

 

[free spirit]

btw no matter how impatient you are to get past a van you should never tailgate them, then attempt to undertake them as once you get too close you can't be seen in the mirrors (presuming the van doesn't have a central mirror), and the van driver will be aware you're behind him but can't pull in if he can't see you as you might have moved into his blind spot and be attempting to undertake.

The blind spot on the left is a nightmare precisely because you can't see fuck all over your shoulder. I once had this situation where I'd overtaken someone in the 3rd lane, finished overtaking but a car had pulled right up behind me while I was doing it so I could no longer see him in either mirror, I wanted to pull in to get out of his way but had no way of telling if he'd decided to undertake (had a gut instinct that he had). Luckily I had a passenger who was able to look for me, and sure enough the fucker was undertaking me... that guy obviously had a fucking death wish.

 

[detective-boy]

I told him I do it every time so that it's a habit -

That is one line of reasoning. There is another whihc says that driving should involve specific thought all the time, every time and, hence, the making of things to be "habitual" can actually be counter-productive.

I like to "drive" rather than point and steer and hence I subscribe to the latter view - the consideration of signal should be a habit, the making of an actual signal should be decided on the merits in each case (with a "signal if in any doubt" default).

 

[bigbry]

That is one line of reasoning. There is another whihc says that driving should involve specific thought all the time, every time and, hence, the making of things to be "habitual" can actually be counter-productive.

I like to "drive" rather than point and steer and hence I subscribe to the latter view - the consideration of signal should be a habit, the making of an actual signal should be decided on the merits in each case (with a "signal if in any doubt" default).

Yeah, fair comment. Perhaps my use of the word 'habit' was wrong. I always try to drive correctly regardless of what other road users (if any) are present or not