Azrael
circling Airstrip One
So now there's "less than a cigarette paper" between believing that your own citizens should be given preference in the job market and "racism"?
Oh dear.
What's wrong with 'local jobs for local people'?
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
Oh dear.
scifisam
deleted
I don't think anyone's saying that individuals shouldn't be free to move as they wish. For me, at least, the argument is that there shouldn't be policies in place which deliberately encourage employers to look abroad for workers (like the way foreign workers get paid less), and there should be some policies in to encourage more local jobs. The government has done this a bit, by moving some of its offices outside London (like the Prison Service headquarters).
Enabling more people to work from home would also help with enabling people to stay in their local area if they want to - although obviously that wouldn't help with construction jobs.
Actually, even there it'd help the administrators and anyone who has to do paperwork as part of their job, which seems to be most people these days. It wouldn't unreasonable or xenophobic, when offering work to a large contractor, to stipulate that they make efforts to use the existing workforce or look in the local area for workers before deciding to bring people in from abroad. The government might not be able to legislate for this, but they could at least not leap up to defend companies who ship workers from thousand of miles away when there are suitable workers already at the plant where the work will be conducted.
That's a pretty good point, actually. Though, of course, the rich areas also cost a lot more to live in, often cancelling out the extra pay - especially for those who want to live there long-term and have a flat of their own rather than put up with sharing a room because they know it won't be forever.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
The comment didn't merit any more.
Not remotely bothered about your view of my "standards", but don't you think that libelling people with false-accusations of "racism" is rather likely to incite anger and (add a dash of irony) sympathy for odious little outfits like the BNP?
Spion
I hear ya
It's not going to do that to me as an implacable enemy of the BNP. It's just a great pity that so-called left wingers feel so weak in their arguments that they have to resort to smear and misrepresentation to close down the argument. I thought Belboid had more brains than that.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
The BJFBW thing is now out of the bag and isn't going to disappear easily, even though it's dressed up in nice new clothes as LJFLW.
This division of w/c came from top-down, out of Brown's mouth and is going to be used to undermine any movement for better conditions/terms/pay in future if it's not dealt with swiftly. Already other nationalists besides BNP are gleeful about the potential recruitment ground that the picket provides them with. TBH, I'm cynical about the way so many groups - left and right - are vying with each other to gain the strikers ears.
This division of w/c came from top-down, out of Brown's mouth and is going to be used to undermine any movement for better conditions/terms/pay in future if it's not dealt with swiftly. Already other nationalists besides BNP are gleeful about the potential recruitment ground that the picket provides them with. TBH, I'm cynical about the way so many groups - left and right - are vying with each other to gain the strikers ears.
JimW
支那暗杀团
"me as an implacable enemy of the BNP" Best recruiting officer they never had to pay, more like.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Quite honestly durutti, I don't see how my picture is affecting the overall quality of the thread, so on reflection I won't be editing it out.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
It's very appropriate choice of image, k_s
Absolutely.
I don't have a problem with local jobs for local workers, anymore then I do buying local produce from local farms. As long as people who move into a community have the same access to jobs and facilities as those already there, then I see now problem with that.
I've lived and worked abroad, and I am currently an immigrant in another country. One thing I do is respect the community I move into, and if fellow Britons moved in and started acting like they owned the place like down in the Costa, then I would want nothing to do with them as it is ignorant.
I don't want to go and live in another community and start making demands from the local populace anymore then I would want people to move into the community and do the same.
I think the problem most people have is not with people moving into their area, it is situation where large numbers of people are brought in to undercut the existing work force. This has nothing to do with communities, race or xenophobia, and everything to do with the companies bottom line. However I would say resistance to this may well manifest in a xenophobic way.
Britain isn't the only country experiencing tension over immigration of course, take a look at Italy right now. Massive trouble brewing over the Rom camps, racial violence related to it etc.
I've lived and worked abroad, and I am currently an immigrant in another country. One thing I do is respect the community I move into, and if fellow Britons moved in and started acting like they owned the place like down in the Costa, then I would want nothing to do with them as it is ignorant.
I don't want to go and live in another community and start making demands from the local populace anymore then I would want people to move into the community and do the same.
I think the problem most people have is not with people moving into their area, it is situation where large numbers of people are brought in to undercut the existing work force. This has nothing to do with communities, race or xenophobia, and everything to do with the companies bottom line. However I would say resistance to this may well manifest in a xenophobic way.
Britain isn't the only country experiencing tension over immigration of course, take a look at Italy right now. Massive trouble brewing over the Rom camps, racial violence related to it etc.
Spion
I hear ya
Interestingly, at Staythorpe last year the union official was attempting to undercut the foreign workers:
"Union spokesman David Smeeton said: "Workers who are brought in are paid £12,000 to £15,000 more for their accommodation and flights home. It is economic madness not to use as many local workers as you can."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7685894.stm
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Spion - did that fella (in the video in your link) get his facts right though?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
oh dear. why are you choosing to deliberately distort what he said Spion?
The official was not trying to undercut workers, he was pointing out the simple stupidity of paying all the extra costs for transport and accommodation. A rather different thing, no?
Another quote from the T&G re Staythorpe:
"Unite would never insist that a company should only employ workers from the UK for a job, we would consider this to be discriminatory. But in this case the contractor will not even consider the skilled local labour on their door step."
Spion
I hear ya
So he wanted local workers to be paid exactly the same, including the £12,000 - £15,000 extra he mentioned?
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Ok lads, clean fight *ding ding*
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
No, silly. He was trying to sell the cost-reducing benefit of employing local skilled lads over extra-expenses of flown-in/in-digs skilled homme et/und maenner.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Who are RWE subcontracting to? Alstom?
Spion
I hear ya
Does that mean he's saying the locals are cheaper?
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
It looks that way, yes, but only due to no expenses, not a difference in hourly rate. Honestly, I don't know if that's true that the sub-sub-contracted workforce are getting thousands in expenses for accommodation and flights home.
Was this a picket made up on unemployed local skilled men?
These lads are desparate for a job, yes?
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Spion
I hear ya
Don't know. Yes, people are desparate for jobs and they should fight to get and retain them, but trying to get preference for British labour over others is not the way to go about it, IMO
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Then what do you suggest, given that there seem to be no UK firms either in the running for contracts or possibly even capable* of building the next generation of energy-producing plants?
*Dunno if there are - information would be most welcome.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
belboid - spion - have a look at that BBC video and check the men out on the picket line, will you!
(click and scroll down) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7685894.stm
One of those blokes was the bloke interviewed by the BBC at LOR strike. Is that John Mckewan the victimised worker from the LOR refinery? (SP member?).
What else do you notice about them? What age-range do you think they span? What age do you think is majority there?
Could there be any ageism involved?
(click and scroll down) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7685894.stm
One of those blokes was the bloke interviewed by the BBC at LOR strike. Is that John Mckewan the victimised worker from the LOR refinery? (SP member?).
What else do you notice about them? What age-range do you think they span? What age do you think is majority there?
Could there be any ageism involved?
Spion
I hear ya
The first step is to make sure no more job losses take place. Workers at sites across the country should link up and agree to strike against any redundancies that are threatened. They should close down power stations until the bosses agree to that demand. All work should be shared out.
At the same time they should demand that recently made redundant power station workers should be reinstated and given a share of the available work.
A longer term aim should be for power workers to use their strength - their ability to close down the country's power supply - to demand massive investment, taken from the power co.s huge profits, for training in the skills needed to develop more efficient and safe means of power.
This could run alongside a worker/union-funded inquiry into the power industry in the UK and the future as regards sustainability and jobs - things like CHP that you've mentioned - with an eye to long term social good not profits for stinking rich multinationals
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Ok, I've gone into brainstorming mode for a while.
This report says UK needs more skilled and trained staff in power industry (http://www.eatechnology.com/images_archive/TimetoLighttheBeaconofOpportunity.pdf PDF)
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