what's the significance of '7'?

[maomao]

Did I say it was commonly used?

You asked: "Can you find an example of 7 being special outside Judeo-Christian societies?"

I am pointing out that the "seven heavenly bodies" have been important in a whole range of places/civilisations and in a fair number of them have led to a 7 day week.

It seems that the "Judeo-Christian" adoption of the 7 day week was not unique or even original, and it was used earlier and elsewhere.

Do you disagree?

Well you've got Babylonians and Hindus which predate Judeo-Christianity so well done there. But 7 is not a particularly special number in Chinese and they have never used a seven day week outside of a few specialist astrologers (until they fell in with the rest of the world that is).

 

[flimsier]

response.

Teej'll still get worked up about it though.

 

[TeeJay]

There is something not Judeo/ christian though, to be fair.

Thank you flimsier. You, at least see the point I am trying to make.

Though it is wikipedia!

Sorry but I just wanted to give a reference that people might recognise. Maybe I should try to find a BBC, Harvard University or National Geographic webpage or something? But I think everyone can see the very general point I was trying to make, and they are free to actually go and look for themselves...

...I don't know if I can be bothered to debate with people who just want to nit-pick, throw around ad hominems and discuss the accuracy or otherwise of wikipedia - rather than actually accept that the number 7 has been "special" from very ancient times and it is clear that this is due to there being 7 "heavenly bodies" - hence the connections with calendars, days, 'the elements', various gods and so forth in a range of different civilisations.

 

[fishfinger]

That must be a septic definition!

compass, n.1 (a. and adv.)

III. The mathematical instrument.

An instrument for taking measurements and describing circles, consisting (in its simplest form) of two straight and equal legs connected at one end by a movable joint. Now gen. in pl.; also pair of compasses.

Source: OED

So it looks like "compass", "compasses", and, "pair of compasses" are all acceptable.

 

[maomao]

rather than actually accept that the number 7 has been "special" from very ancient times and it is clear that this is due to there being 7 "heavenly bodies" - hence the connections with calendars, days, 'the elements', various gods and so forth in a range of different civilisations.

But you've completely failed to do that.

 

[TeeJay]

Well you've got Babylonians and Hindus which predate Judeo-Christianity so well done there. But 7 is not a particularly special number in Chinese and they have never used a seven day week outside of a few specialist astrologers (until they fell in with the rest of the world that is).

Thank you for explaining that to everyone.

You will also see that is exactly what it says on the website I linked to above.

 

[TeeJay]

But you've completely failed to do that.

Sorry but I fail to see where you are going with this.

"Can you find an example of 7 being special outside Judeo-Christian societies?"

Have you had this point answered?

 

[flimsier]

compass, n.1 (a. and adv.)

III. The mathematical instrument.

An instrument for taking measurements and describing circles, consisting (in its simplest form) of two straight and equal legs connected at one end by a movable joint. Now gen. in pl.; also pair of compasses.

Source: OED

So it looks like "compass", "compasses", and, "pair of compasses" are all acceptable.

[/Teej]

 

[maomao]

Thank you for explaining that to everyone.

You will also see that is exactly what it says on the website I linked to above.

So why did you come out with this:

Actually seven days in a week is common to other cultures as well. The days of the week were named after the 7 heavenly bodies - the five visible planets plus the sun and moon. This astronomical basis for the week seems to be common to both middle eastern and far eastern (eg China, Korea, Japan) cultures/civilisations. The mention in the bible is maybe just an appropriation of a pre-existing or earlier system?

Which just isn't very true at all.

You can't claim that you were right just because your sources were.

 

[maomao]

Sorry but I fail to see where you are going with this.

"Can you find an example of 7 being special outside Judeo-Christian societies?"

Have you had this point answered?

I've had it explained to the point where I'm reconsidering my use of the words 'judeo-christian' cause it doesn;t quite do it, but I don't think you've achieved much except c&p ing a bunch of bumph that you haven;t even read properly. And you think that makes you cleverer than everyone else.

 

[TeeJay]

...Which leaves all the remaining examples firmly within Judeo-Christian society...

Babylonian
Greek (pagan)
Roman (pagan)
Germanic (pagan)
Japan

This is leaving aside historical China, Vietnam and the ancient Hindu civilization mentioned in wikipedia.

 

[flimsier]

I've had it explained to the point where I'm reconsidering my use of the words 'judeo-christian' cause it doesn;t quite do it, but I don't think you've achieved much except c&p ing a bunch of bumph that you haven;t even read properly. And you think that makes you cleverer than everyone else.

This is true, and very typical of Teejay.

I like this thread.... I'm just letting you both know I'm reading it.

And it's a fucking pair of compasses, no matter what any source on this thread says!!

 

[maomao]

Babylonian
Greek (pagan)
Roman (pagan)
Germanic (pagan)
Japan

This is leaving aside historical China, Vietnam and the ancient Hindu civilization mentioned in wikipedia.

Okay, change 'judeo-christian' to 'western', admit you're wrong about Japan (who didn't use it as a popular system until they realised it fit in with the western one) and what does that leave you with? Vietnam and one Hindu civilisation. Out of how many historical civilisations? What's so special about seven again?

 

[888]

Outside Judeo-Christian societies you can find it in pre Chrisitan Rome (I think) and the seven days are named after norse gods in English, something that the Icelandic church suppressed by renaming the days of the week "one-day", "two-day", etc.

In alchemy 7 corresponded to the 7 planets, days, and the seven known metals: Moon/Silver/Mon, Mars/Iron/Tues, Mercury/Mercury/Wednes, Jupiter/Tin/Thurs, Saturn/Lead/Satur, Sun/Gold/Sun...

 

[DaveCinzano]

What's so special about seven again?

it's magic

 

[TeeJay]

I've had it explained to the point where I'm reconsidering my use of the words 'judeo-christian' cause it doesn;t quite do it, but I don't think you've achieved much except c&p ing a bunch of bumph that you haven;t even read properly. And you think that makes you cleverer than everyone else.

I have read most of the stuff properly - but not that recently. I remember having a discussion about the origin of the days of the week and reading through that site earlier this year. I remembered the parts about the Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Germanic tribes and Japan. I also knew about Japan because I have learnt some basic Japanese and worked there for a year.

I mentioned "China and Korea" from memory, as I had only glanced through those pages - and in fact the website mentions China and *Vietnam* - so in fact I actually got the country wrong. I was incorrect to say that the number 7 is important in Chinese culture with respect to a 7 day week, but that notwithstanding my bad memory (I posted that comment before re-finding the website in question) my general point still stands - there are multiple examples of the importance of the number 7 in non Judeo-Christian civilisations.

 

[TeeJay]

...admit you're wrong about Japan (who didn't use it as a popular system until they realised it fit in with the western one)...

Care to cite your sources? Or are you just going to use exactly the same website you have criticised me for quoting from?

 

[maomao]

my general point still stands - there are multiple examples of the importance of the number 7 in non Judeo-Christian civilisations.

Multiple examples doesn't necessarilly add up to a significant tendency though does it.

 

[maomao]

Care to cite your sources? Or are you just going to use exactly the same website you have criticised me for quoting from?

Well I don't know that much about Japanese calendars except they copied them from the Chinese and I know more about Chinese calendars than you. And as it was confirmed on that website of yours I don't see why I'd need another source.

I'm getting paid while I sit here talking shit btw, what's your excuse?

 

[TeeJay]

...one Hindu civilisation...

You do know what the Ramayana is?

 

[maomao]

You do know what the Ramayana is?

No. Not my area I'm afraid.

 

[maomao]

No. Not my area I'm afraid.

And I don't make a habit of trying to make out that I know something about everything. Which if you didn't do quite frankly you'd be restricted to threads about having no friends and wanking too much so I guess I should give you some leeway.

 

[flimsier]

And I don't make a habit of trying to make out that I know something about everything. Which if you didn't do quite frankly you'd be restricted to threads about having no friends and wanking too much so I guess I should give you some leeway.

 

[TeeJay]

Well I don't know that much about Japanese calendars except they copied them from the Chinese and I know more about Chinese calendars than you. And as it was confirmed on that website of yours I don't see why I'd need another source.

Does this mean I know more about Japanese calendars than you?

I'm getting paid while I sit here talking shit btw, what's your excuse?

I'm not enjoying this much. I was just trying to make a contribution based on something I remembered reading a while ago and found interesting. I don't really want to have some fight with you based on the fact that you are cleverer than me and know more about Chinese culture, history and civilisation etc.

Anyway:

the number 7 ----> "7 heavenly bodies" -----> 7 days of the week in various Judeo-Christian *and* non Judeo-Christian civilisations/cultures.

 

[TeeJay]

And I don't make a habit of trying to make out that I know something about everything. Which if you didn't do quite frankly you'd be restricted to threads about having no friends and wanking too much so I guess I should give you some leeway.

You think I have no friends? You think I wank too much?

You have never even met me. Maybe you will one day and can tell me why you think this.

 

[maomao]

. Maybe you will one day and can tell me why you think this.

Overwhelming impression from reading your posts over the last two years.

 

[flimsier]

Me too.

 

[TeeJay]

maomao you're the one who wants to tell everyone about your wanking
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3648560&postcount=22

 

[TeeJay]

Me too.

You are "Me too" flimiser.

 

[flimsier]

And I don't make a habit of trying to make out that I know something about everything.

Fuck me, TJ does. Even about other people's habits!