whats the difference between a trot and a leftie?

[teuchter]

Google it.......

I've done that in the past and I get something like

Definition

James P. Cannon in his 1942 book History of American Trotskyism wrote that "Trotskyism is not a new movement, a new doctrine, but the restoration, the revival of genuine Marxism as it was expounded and practiced in the Russian revolution and in the early days of the Communist International." However, Trotskyism can be distinguished from other Marxist theories by four key elements.
Support for the strategy of permanent revolution, in opposition to the Two Stage Theory of his opponents;[3]
Criticism of the post-1924 leadership of the Soviet Union, analysis of its features[4] and after 1933, support for political revolution in the Soviet Union and in what Trotskyists term the deformed workers' states;
Support for social revolution in the advanced capitalist countries through working class mass action;
Support for proletarian internationalism.[5]

On the political spectrum of Marxism, Trotskyists are considered to be on the left. They supported democratic rights in the USSR,[6] opposed political deals with the imperialist powers, and advocated a spreading of the revolution throughout Europe and the East.

and I get a headache trying to trawl through it all so was hoping someone could provide a concise explanation for someone who hasn't spent a substantial portion of their life with their head buried in Marxist theory and history books.

 

[nightbreed]

I've done that in the past and I get something like



and I get a headache trying to trawl through it all so was hoping someone could provide a concise explanation for someone who hasn't spent a substantial portion of their life with their head buried in Marxist theory and history books.

Listen mate. I wouldnt lose any sleep over it. It doesnt matter and has no relevance to the issues facing the working class.

Continue reading Marx thats all I say. Develop your own interpretation.

Then get a job in a factory, warehouse or call centre. It all come easy then.

 

[DotCommunist]

History of American Trotskyism

fail

 

[teuchter]

Listen mate. I wouldnt lose any sleep over it. It doesnt matter and has no relevance to the issues facing the working class.

That doesn't seem to be the consensus on here. People are forever getting wound up about the mysterious trots.

 

[nightbreed]

That doesn't seem to be the consensus on here. People are forever getting wound up about the mysterious trots.

Its an internet forum . What do you expect?

 

[dylans]

53 posts and I am no clearer about what the difference between a trot and a leftie is than at the beginning of the thread.

A trot is someone who believes they are continuing the tradition of the Lenin and the Bolshevik party and the principles of the third international prior to Lenins death, Stalin and the purges of oppositionists (including of course Trotsky himself.) The Cannon quote is correct. Trotskyists believe they are the true Leninists. The inheritors of the Bolshevik revolution and the Communist international prior to Stalin.

Trotsky is percieved as the nemesis of Stalin and the first and loudest to denounce him. In particular Trotskists have always been principled internationalists and denounced Stalin for his "socialism in one country" position. Trotsky never stopped denouncing Stalin.To his last breath. For this Trotsky was a hero. Revolution betrayed is a great book and I think Trotsky stance on Stalin was heroic. It has always been one of their few attractive qualities. They are principled losers. Perpetual underdogs, and that is not an insult. In fact I think it's a complement.

My problem with them is with their attitude to internal democracy. Lenin's attitude to internal democracy, Their emphasis on political purity is I think where they fall apart like a pack of cards. And where they could be dangerous if a trot party ever took power. Arguments are always fatal for trots. A minor argument becomes party threatening. Political differences get labelled as "reformist" or "centrist," The result of course is split, split and split again. This is a laughable legacy of the Trotskyist movement. In power, people would be shot. Remember Krondstadt is a familiar refrain but a true one nevertheless. Lenin and Trotsky crushed revolutionaries. Given the tendancy for self destruction however I think they are destined to be a principled but tiny movement.

 

[dylans]

oops

 

[danny la rouge]

Teuchter;

A Trot is a member of a particular faction (or set of factions). Many of their assumed beliefs, especially as regarding authoritarianism, vanguardism, and the role of the party, are not shared by others on the left. In actually existing Trotskyism, many of the tactics and strategies are questioned by others on the left.

In my case, I distinguish between libertarian socialism and authoritarian socialism; Trotskyism falls on the wrong side of that, in my view. However, there are many good, decent people who have, for whatever reason, attached themselves to so-called Trotskist organisations. And they were on the right side in Spain.

However, it would be remiss of me if I didn't say one thing. Kronstadt.