What's the difference? Anthony Ekundayo Lennon v Rachel Dolezal

Discussion in 'theory, philosophy & history' started by AnnO'Neemus, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    yeh. so mixed heritage as mixed race seems to me problematic in at least this case.
  2. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    Was just clarifying 're notion of possible black grandparents.
  3. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Ah, ok, cool. Though my point still applies. The idea that his race is defined by his grandparents' still begs the question.
    Celyn likes this.
  4. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree All Cretans are liars, Epiminides (Cretan)

    A pretty good test of the attitudes of others might be eg where a bus-driver in Montgomery Alabama would have made Anthony or Rachel sit in 1955, both without any make-up. Or who might have been reclassified under apartheid. Some people were reclassified three or four times during their lives. It wasn't cut-and-dried for white supremacy who got into their grubby club.

    This makes the point that the whole business of classification by race is dodgy:
    Untitled Document

    I don't think the test of what you or another person would have described the person as (let's say to the police) is any good. That would depend on any number of factors that would influence/prejudice the description.

    I suppose if you support the idea that redress is in order and that these efforts to correct imbalances in some jobs are worthy ones, then you can't start behaving rather too like the attitudes that caused the problem in the first place and these things simply have to be allowed to slide. There aren't dozens of people pulling this fast one, if that's what it is.
  5. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    if your ggparents all white then where is the african ancestry, i wonder if it's that african ancestry we all have
  6. Mordi

    Mordi Amoral adventurist

    Indeed. I'm reading a book about the Free State of Jones at the moment which deals in part with a court case in '40s Mississippi (thanks spell check) over a white presenting man who was found guilty of breaking the colour line by marrying a white woman.
    "Although Davis was descended from Newt and his wife, Serena, both of whom were white, he was also the great-grandson of Rachel Knight, a former slave of Newt’s grandfather. And although Davis was white in appearance, because of his descent from Rachel, he was defined as black by his white neighbors."
    The author has another article on this legal construction of race in which some Judges in 1877 North Carolina thought that by simply carrying a child who may be of mixed race the white mother also became mixed.
  7. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Sassy McFlashy

    The ODR in all it's racist, institutionalised glory at work.'Black' blood/heritage characterised as a pollutant and a poison that needs to be counted/exposed regardless of it's percentage, to guard against the 'purity' of 'Whiteness' being compromised.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
    Dom Traynor and 8ball like this.
  8. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    A good example of race being created by racism, rather than racism being founded on a biological fact of race. Through racecraft, what was racism by one group becomes the race of another group. Davis is black (as a biological fact), as opposed to Davis' neighbours enacting racism towards Davis (their behaviour).
  9. AlanAlanant

    AlanAlanant New Member

    He is mixed race:

    Anthony Ekundayo Lennon on being accused of 'passing' as a black man: 'It felt like an assassination'

    "I ask him about the news he mentioned when he first called me a couple of months ago. Lennon smiles and whips out an envelope containing the results of an ancestry DNA test he recently took. It shows his genetic makeup, country by country: 46% Irish and Scottish, 22% from England, Wales and north-western Europe. He points me to the last stat: 32% West African. The science of ancestry DNA testing is not infallible, but it feels like a significant result. Does he feel vindicated? “All it’s done for me is confirmed in data what I’ve always known.” Some time in the future, he will trace those African roots right back through his family. But for now only one thing matters to him – that they are there."

    So the discussion on here is redundant.
    Dom Traynor likes this.
  10. Proper Tidy

    Proper Tidy Arsed

    I don't think it's all that important really, is it, DNA results. Racism and race is a social phenomenon, getting bogged down in what % DNA is this or that rather than recognising it's about the social experience of prejudice is basically conceding the ground to the 14 words types. Surely. If I did a DNA test I'd have a fair old chunk of irish and jewish I think but have I experienced anti irish or anti jewish prejudice, have I fuck, worst I've had is a few dickheads going on about sheep and crossbows after midnight
  11. 8ball

    8ball Resident Right-Winger

    Those tests are about as reliable as horoscopes.
    A paternity test would have a much higher likelihood of pointing towards his ancestry.

    Though I don't think ancestry is the most important factor in his case. He's had a lifetime of being a man with physical characteristics which have led others to react to him a certain way, and which have shaped his experience. Racism doesn't come from a test tube.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    what a curious first post
    muscovyduck, 8ball and Maggot like this.
  13. Dom Traynor

    Dom Traynor Tino Pai

    I don't think it's for me as a white man to define who is Black or not. What I would suggest is that the DNA test taking all caveats into account - shows that his mum or a grand mother might be fibbing about who they have slept with at some point.

    I have quite a few mixed race cousins and I know the ones who pass as white have an easier life than their own siblings who don't.
  14. 8ball

    8ball Resident Right-Winger

    Uh, hang on a sec... :confused:
    ItWillNeverWork likes this.
  15. Dom Traynor

    Dom Traynor Tino Pai

  16. ItWillNeverWork

    ItWillNeverWork Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.

    Yeah sit down and shut up, white boy. Stop having opinions based on objective reality.
    Dom Traynor likes this.
  17. JudithB

    JudithB Active Member

  18. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank If it's alive, don't lick it.

    Don't know what either of those have to do with this thread, but fwiw a search which takes around three seconds would show you 64 prior references to Lily Madigan on these boards.
  19. 8ball

    8ball Resident Right-Winger

    I just meant that you’d started the comment with a definition of one person as being white.

    Was a throwaway comment, not meant to be a dig. :)
    Dom Traynor likes this.
  20. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Sassy McFlashy

    Why the unnecessary shit stirring? It's obvious that 8ball wasn't saying anything so aggressively dismissive as this.
    Dom Traynor likes this.
  21. Dom Traynor

    Dom Traynor Tino Pai

    Fair enough obviously that definition was me about me and is backed up by society
    8ball and Rutita1 like this.
  22. 8ball

    8ball Resident Right-Winger

    It's one of those recurring battles at the moment; to what degree society's definition of a person should overrule, or be overruled by, a person's own declarations. With race, it still seems to be society that has the upper hand, whereas with gender we are very much in a state of flux.
    Dom Traynor likes this.
  23. ItWillNeverWork

    ItWillNeverWork Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.

    It was a bit sharp of me, you're right. Apologies Dom Traynor and 8ball
    Dom Traynor likes this.

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