Whats the best way to deal with the BNP?

[gentlegreen]

Make sure they are given lots of constituency work to do.

Presumably they have certain obligations that can be tested publicly ?

 

[shagnasty]

If we must post up pictures of guns, buy British!

Is taht a webley favourite gun of general custer

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.

 

[Azrael]

Is taht a webley favourite gun of general custer

Wasn't Custer dead by the time Webley revolvers got popular? He was certainly dead long before the ones in Zulu were made: they're a job lot of Great War pistols. Mr Caine didn't seem to mind though.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Where's the option for kill them all and let god sort em out?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Care Bear Stare!

 

[Kid_Eternity]

 

[Prince Rhyus]

Lampoonery

 

[Azrael]

Care Bear Stare!

Brings new meaning to "share the love"!

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Make sure they are given lots of constituency work to do.

Presumably they have certain obligations that can be tested publicly ?

A chum thinks we should send in endless inane questions they will have to answer. He also wants lots of trannies to go to their office asking to join up.
Just passing it on.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Or something similar to this:

Questions for the BNP pt1

Questions for the BNP pt2

 

[Azrael]

Good questions.

Alternatively, and I suspect this would be a killer for Mr Griffin, "Would you support a socialist party that had a policy of non-white repatriation against a conservative party that didn't?"

If he answers "yes", he's blown any claim he has to be a conservative; if he answers "no", he risks loosing most of his members; and if he refuses to answer, he looks suspicious to everyone.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I dont understand how option 2 has so many votes and option 4 so little when the only way of them "withering away" is to lose their seats. That's the bottom line: They are in. I believe 2 things will happen in comming years:

1) an attempt by the fascist to reach out by saying controversial things that sound fresh and appealing to a frankly gullible market.

2) Their increasing exposure as cranks and scum

(2) is more guaranteed than (1) but offset by their increased funding for campaigns such as re-election in 2014.

we cant ignore them: They could well turn out to be ineffectual but it's not a chance we can take. We should debate with them as little as possible, oxygen of publicity and all that. Harrassment and inconvinience are one thing "driving them off the street" is another. Ridicule is the strongest then getting out the vote for a viable alternative. We dont know how many parties will stack up by then but it does look like The Green Party will be the best bet to boot the fuckers out, at least in the NW. This doesnt mean the Greens should be too obsessive about being an anti-nazi party - more that we should start to build better in working class and BME communities so that a message to vote tactically will go better heeded.

A Green MP or 2 will trump 2 Nazi MEPs for cred and coverage. The nazis wont be getting an MP under FPTP in a month of Sundays, there is that to be thankful for.

One things for sure - plenty of people who couldn't be arsed to vote this time certainly will next time, not least huge swathes of BME voters.

 

[derf]

To know how to fight them you should look at how they work.

They work using a message showing how to cure the problems of the country,
Of course it's all a bunch of lies but it looks good.

The only way to fight these people is to show the opposite. Protesters can shout "Nazi" at them all day long and only end up helping their cause but if you show the public that people are just people, regardless of what their religion or skin colour is, you are on a winner.

It's summer over there now so get some nice banners made up about being nice to people and get some street parties sorted out with as many people with backgrounds from as many countries you can and party.

DON"T use that left wing shit - It's a serious turn off to most even if you like it.

Music, food and a good time. You can't hate someone while you explore their culture and food. You can't hate someone you have just had a nice chat with.
You can't hate a whole race if you know a couple of nice people from that group.

Negative messages have been tried and have failed for years. Try something new. If I'm wrong the worst that can happen is you have a good time.

 

[butchersapron]

All this stuff you keep posting up is just nothing - it doesn't alter the root causes of support for the BNP. It's just froth - and it's stuff that's already happening. It's exactly the same as what the groups you criticise have been doing for the last decade with no visible success. It's got sweet FA to do with the BNP or the social conditions in this country.

 

[butchersapron]

Or something similar to this:

Questions for the BNP pt1

Questions for the BNP pt2

It's not a matter of questions that reveal the truth underneath - everyone knows the truth and having it exposed has made no impact whatsoever.

 

[butchersapron]

A chum thinks we should send in endless inane questions they will have to answer. He also wants lots of trannies to go to their office asking to join up.
Just passing it on.

They'll ignore them - straight in the bin. What use is this? What good is wasting your time (which will be at least as much as theirs, almost definitely more) doing this nonsense? The BNP vote isn't growing because they have free time on their hands or aren't made to read hilarious sub-chris morris questions -it's rising because of the real social conditions people are currently enduring and reacting to. Silly games are not going to impact on those, it'll just leave them free to get on with racialising those reactions.

 

[butchersapron]

Good questions.

Alternatively, and I suspect this would be a killer for Mr Griffin, "Would you support a socialist party that had a policy of non-white repatriation against a conservative party that didn't?"

If he answers "yes", he's blown any claim he has to be a conservative; if he answers "no", he risks loosing most of his members; and if he refuses to answer, he looks suspicious to everyone.

There's definte mileage to be made of working on their internal political contradictions - between the old labour style social protection vote and the social conservative vote. They currently are speaking with two voices to two different constituences -the problem is though, that ongoing conditions are bringing the two closer together, and hardening both votes in the process. If the left cannot speak to that first vote, to make itself relevent to them achieving their aims then there's trouble ahead.

 

[butchersapron]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6488445.ece F#ck! - Even The Times is asking questions about anti-BNP tactics! Well...who'd have thought?

The Times is simply reporting on a longstanding internal debate within mainstream pro-staus quo anti-fascism. The only form of anti-fascims it can recognise, being a mainstream pro-staus quo anti-fascist paper.

 

[treelover]

Lampoonery
Reply With Quote

Hasn't worked uptill now, i have lost count of the amount of silly student union satire aimed at BNP posters on fora such as Guardian CIF, its not happening....

time to get serious


why not write to your MP about the welfare reforms for instance or even better get on the streets about them


won't happen though....

 

[frogwoman]

There's definte mileage to be made of working on their internal political contradictions - between the old labour style social protection vote and the social conservative vote. They currently are speaking with two voices to two different constituences -the problem is though, that ongoing conditions are bringing the two closer together, and hardening both votes in the process. If the left cannot speak to that first vote, to make itself relevent to them achieving their aims then there's trouble ahead.

really good post

Butchers, how would you do things? I'm not saying i don't agree with you, but it seems to me that "anti-fascism" (a loaded term if ever there was one) has hit a bit of a dead end tbh ... and it's not as though many of the members of these organisations don't also campagin on unemploymnent/working conditions issues as well

Are there any left/working class organisations that ARE doing things right as far as the bnp are concerned? (in your opinion) or at least not doing it as badly as the others?

 

[treelover]

and it's not as though many of the members of these organisations don't also campagin on unemploymnent/working conditions issues as well

Er, most of them don't, the SWP just shouted 'wacist' from the sidelines during the lynsey oil refinery dispute.

 

[butchersapron]

really good post

Butchers, how would you do things? I'm not saying i don't agree with you, but it seems to me that "anti-fascism" (a loaded term if ever there was one) has hit a bit of a dead end tbh ... and it's not as though many of the members of these organisations don't also campagin on unemploymnent/working conditions issues as well

Are there any left/working class organisations that ARE doing things right as far as the bnp are concerned? (in your opinion) or at least not doing it as badly as the others?

The formation of ‘community unions’ not connected to labour, possibly funded by trade unions? but with organisational independence assured, that work directly on helping to meet the needs of those politically abandoned working class communities where conditions are deteriorating by the day. Based around the self-identified needs and plans of those communities - which can only pit them head to head against the BNP and the rest of the political mainstream.

The types of small victories than can be won on this terrain should be viewed not only as being worthwhile in themselves but also as contributing to the re-emergence of community confidence in its political self assertion, the necessary first steps towards rebuilding a meaningful wider political challenge Yep, there are already existing groups engaged in this practical activity such as LCAP, Haringey Solidarity, the IWCA and so on -i bleive the SP are doing some good work in this area too. The wider polyicl groups seem mainly interested in global stuff, NUS stuff, rearranging their own deckcahirs - and now simple apoltical pro-status quo anti-fascism.

 

[treelover]

BA,
why no mention of the unemployed, etc in this schema, for example, the welfare reforms are going to drive down wages, create more unemployment as 'offenders' replace low paid council workers, etc never mind all the benefit cuts etc,

 

[butchersapron]

I assumed that would go without saying, covered under "work directly on helping to meet the needs of those politically abandoned working class communities where conditions are deteriorating by the day"

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

They'll ignore them - straight in the bin. What use is this? What good is wasting your time (which will be at least as much as theirs, almost definitely more) doing this nonsense? The BNP vote isn't growing because they have free time on their hands or aren't made to read hilarious sub-chris morris questions -it's rising because of the real social conditions people are currently enduring and reacting to. Silly games are not going to impact on those, it'll just leave them free to get on with racialising those reactions.

That's actually what I thought Butchers. I was too cowardly to tell him at the time. Like I say, I was just passing it on.

It would still be amusing in a Mark Thomas kind of way for "proud British" transvestites to make enquiries at the office though.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Butchers

"simple apoltical pro-status quo anti-fascism."

Yep. Sadly there is a lot of that about, and looks set to be for a while. UAF are easily the most visible "anti" organisation but are beset with too many problems for me to want to bother with very much. On the other hand I want to keep an eye on them and tend to like them as individuals. There are pretty big parallels with STWC.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ridicule. I like my evil bigots out in the open where those more verbally adept than myself can skewer them.

This is why I've never, in the last 30+ years, favoured "no platform" as a way of dealing with the far right. IME it's far better to let them air their venom and then counter their assertions with fact than it is to deny them "the oxygen of publicity", which merely feeds their martyrdom complexes.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Hasn't worked uptill now, i have lost count of the amount of silly student union satire aimed at BNP posters on fora such as Guardian CIF, its not happening....

time to get serious


why not write to your MP about the welfare reforms for instance or even better get on the streets about them


won't happen though....

Given that the BNP are fully committed to the introduction of workfare as an antidote to "decades of Labour and Tory socialist state-induced welfare dependency" I doubt there's any causal relationship between the Government's welfare reform plans and BNP protest votes.

Is there any reason you've tried to crowbar the welfare issue into the thread other than the usual waggy finger moralism?