What's Left of the Left? (on @ the ICA)

[SuburbanCasual]

I fail to see how the editor of an online 'zine/music+drugs messageboard appearing on a panal with a few journos is lending credibility to the IoI.

For a start the number of people at the debate can't have been more than a couple of hundred, secondly hardly anyone heard about it (out of the population of the UK) given that the first you lot knew about it was on this thread.

And comparing the IoI to the BNP is laughable hysterical garbage - very few people take them seriously and those who do tend to already believe in the sort of views they push.

 

[SuburbanCasual]

If I was the editor i would look at it this way, worst case scenario - you don't get anything out of it other than a bit of cash (I'm assuming you were paid, they normally pay), best case scenario he gets to have an interesting exchange of ideas with some other journos, and a bit of cash.

 

[Groucho]

But you're still talking about (your perception of) the content of the event. I'm talking about the propaganda value of the occurrence of the event and the participant list.

To be blunt: appearing on the bill for a front organisation lends credibility to its lie.

Does anyone know what the IoI lot actually do aside from get money for themselves? Do they actually recruit to anything/have anything to recruit to? Do they influence anything or make attempts to influence anything?

I know the old RCP used to indulge in physical assault on left groups. Their views are obscure and often pretty reactionary, but are they anything more than a discussion forum now? If they are a sort of a 'think tank' does anyone actually listen?

 

[laptop]

If they are a sort of a 'think tank' does anyone actually listen?

I was using IoI as shorthand for the whole shebang.

Read: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=LM_group

 

[editor]

But you're still talking about (your perception of) the content of the event. I'm talking about the propaganda value of the occurrence of the event and the participant list.

To be blunt: appearing on the bill for a front organisation lends credibility to its lie.

You know what - and this isn't just aimed at you - I fucking hate it when left-leaning people get on their fucking high horses, telling me what I should or shouldn't do, or criticising my choices just because it doesn't fit in the way they like to do things.

The fact that I decided to join an interesting panel and say whatever I fancied for an hour or so is not of any consequence. I don't believe the IoI gained any measurably benefit from my minor involvement, and even if they did, so fucking what?

I mean, who really gives a fuck?

urban hasn't turned into a propaganda satellite of the IoI - in fact, I don't think there's a single positive word to be found on this site about them.

But here's a crazy wild notion. Maybe by having urban75's name on the programme, perhaps some people may have decided to take a look at the site and read the boards and maybe - just maybe - it managed to change their opinion on a few things, or even their perception of the IoI.

But no, let's not try and find anything positive or even put the (non) event in context. Let's all line up to criticise the editor for adding his towering prestige and massively enhancing the credibility of a tiny, long-past event that occurred without any of the 'concerned' politicos here even noticing it.

 

[Groucho]

I was using IoI as shorthand for the whole shebang.

Read: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=LM_group

We are talking about a network of right-wing libertarians some of whom used to be in the horrid RCP who now arrange debates with a right-wing agenda to include a token lefty (such as Wainwright), and who write articles in (mainly) right-wing newspapers. It is not exactly earth shattering terrifying stuff. No-one listens to climate change denial anymore and they weren't even the most well known advocates of that position.

 

[The Black Hand]

Do you have any suggestions as to how this might be adressed? Perhaps there could be an exam. Or a bureau to carry out investigations, and issue a Certificate of Authenticity. A Charter Mark, if you will. There could be a system of Tribunals to deal with appeals, and a special Register. Maybe there could be different levels as well, with Fellowships, and the like.

Or am I being silly now?

I just think that those particularly motivated by dislike of them should disrupt their meetings if they wish The class giving the 'boring and wanky mouthpieces' a bit of justice - class justice

 

[bristol_citizen]

We are talking about a network of right-wing libertarians some of whom used to be in the horrid RCP who now arrange debates with a right-wing agenda to include a token lefty (such as Wainwright), and who write articles in (mainly) right-wing newspapers. It is not exactly earth shattering terrifying stuff. No-one listens to climate change denial anymore and they weren't even the most well known advocates of that position.

Sorry. When did Nick Cohen and Martin Kettle become right wing libertarians?

 

[Kaka Tim]

And comparing the IoI to the BNP is laughable hysterical garbage - very few people take them seriously and those who do tend to already believe in the sort of views they push.

Who aren't taken seriously? The BNP or the IofI?

I think they both poison politics in this country in their own different ways. Both have a 'single turd pollutes the entire swimming pool' effect.

The fact that the BNP have are winning a growing number of council seats accross the country - when 15 years ago they had none - suggest that a more and more people are taking them seriously.

The fact that the IofI are regularly appearing on mainstream media discussion programmes - as well as having made TV programs for channel 4 - suggests they are also treated as a 'serious' organsiation by the media at least.

And FFS editor - nobody is saying what you should or shouldn't do. They are pointing out that the IofI are well dodgey cunts - which you, along with most of the population, didn't seem to be aware of.

Im sure you'd think twice about being invovled in an event organsied by the scientologists, the BNP or some Islamic nutjob outfit.

 

[nino_savatte]

Well, the only way they've 'wormed' their way on to u75 is on these boards and that's hardly been flattering!

Have they? Come to think of it, it is conceivable that I have unknowingly had contact with some of them.

I feel filthy.

 

[nino_savatte]

Does anyone know what the IoI lot actually do aside from get money for themselves? Do they actually recruit to anything/have anything to recruit to? Do they influence anything or make attempts to influence anything?

I know the old RCP used to indulge in physical assault on left groups. Their views are obscure and often pretty reactionary, but are they anything more than a discussion forum now? If they are a sort of a 'think tank' does anyone actually listen?

They get some exposure on radio and television. Mick Hume writes for The Times (think of their recent advertising slogan "Join the Debate" and you're there).

They still operate a number of front groups and even host an annual debating competition with money donated by corporate sponsors like Pfizer.

 

[Groucho]

Sorry. When did Nick Cohen and Martin Kettle become right wing libertarians?

I was talking about LM

 

[treelover]

apparently its sold out, at a tenner a go!

 

[SuburbanCasual]

Who aren't taken seriously? The BNP or the IofI?

I think they both poison politics in this country in their own different ways. Both have a 'single turd pollutes the entire swimming pool' effect.
t.

Grow up!

Of course I mean the fucking IoI - no one outside a tiny circle of liberal middle class central London fuckwits gives a toss about them, who the fuck watches the boring irrelevent discussion programmes they appear on?

The BNP are getting in the papers everyday, winning over 50 council seats and getting nearly a million votes for their poisonous politics in the Euros

The Spiked cunts get on a few discussion panals where most people think they seem like idiots

Get some fucking perspective.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Grow up!

Of course I mean the fucking IoI - no one outside a tiny circle of liberal middle class central London fuckwits gives a toss about them, who the fuck watches the boring irrelevent discussion programmes they appear on?

wind your neck in - it was not clear from your post who you were referring to and many people express the same opinion about the BNP.

The IofI have access to a lot of media - far more than the BNP.

The media they operrate in are not thise with a mass audience - but they have an audiecen of predominately wealthy, influential people - i.e the broadsheets, radio 4, 'serious' Tv discussion programmes. They also target their ideas at up and coming 'opinion formers' - like students at the top universities - or people who run influential websites.

I have yet to see anybody on these programmes expose them as a front organisations with no credentials or credbility to speak on most of the subjects they spout. And - as the Editor's experiecne has demonstrated - most people are unaware of their dubious nature.

So yes they are potentially dangerous. As to how much influence they already have - well thats impossible to quantify - they are not running for council seats, but they are trying to get their dodgey idas into the poiltical mainstream. certainly they have far more infuence in this area then 'radical left' groups like the SWP or radical environemntalists. I definitely think they should be opposed wherever they plop up.