What's Left of the Left? (on @ the ICA)

[treelover]

Weird, they are just talking about the left on PM now, its about Alan Woods, his 'hands off Venezuela' group, oh and a female pensioner former CP member.

 

[dennisr]

Weird, they are just talking about the left on PM now, its about Alan Woods, his 'hands off Venezuela' group, oh and a female pensioner former CP member.

I'd have been interested to hear Woods's views

 

[Kaka Tim]

in what way dangerous? ..

(used to some of rcp style 20 year ago) ..

becasue they seem to have a deliberate agenda of introducing some very dodgey ideas (e.g r/wing libertarianism - attacking the welfare state - attacking climate change theories) into the mainstream under the cover of being 'left radicals' - they seem to have an astonishing amount of influence in and access to the mass media.

If they are not already in the pay of some very dubious r/wing neo-con organisations they are missing some very lucrative funding opportunities.

I find their methods, their deliberate deception and level of influence very disturbing - they remind of the scientologists.

The parrelel with the BNP is on the level of tehy both work hard at giving a venner of repectibility for ideas that are destructive, distorted, poisonous and serve the agenda of biulding support for their own power base.

 

[greenman]

Furedi and his cohorts remind me of the "Dave Reid" character from MacLeod's Fall Revolution Novels

However, I think you are being a bit harsh on poor old Wainwright - she can't help her class origins! And Red Pepper is not that bad, compared to the drivel coming out of some left groups. As Groucho says, she is the only one on that panel that will express views that most of us on here would recognise as even left of centre, let alone left. Not sure whether it is an "error of judgement" on her part. Maybe she is going along to say how ridiculous it is that the other three even dare to call themselves "left" anymore.
Agree with Larry on the rest of 'em.

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

Kettle: ex-Leftist, now Blair apologist

Wainwright: the ultimate Public School/Oxbridge Hooray Henrietta, whose involvement is the kiss of death to any genuine radicalism.

Cohen: explicit renegade--& given IOI fully support multinational capitalism, way beyond the pale

Hume: LM scum

--none of these people are Leftists in any genuine sense. Let them get on with it.

Exactly. In fact the very title is typical. Suggesting there's no real left remaining and the best they can do is cosy up to the rulers.

I feel sick.

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

Institute of Ideas.

I gave a talk for them a few months ago.

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

Got to say - they are one of the few groups (those behind the settup rather than the other speakers) I'd be very wary of giving any possible credence too - even if inadvertantly.

They seem to thrive on pseudo-contrivercial 'debates' to cover the pushing of their own hidden agendas - not that those agendas are that easy to work out half the time. Don't like them or their approach to getting publicity - sneaky lot as far as I can see with dodgy views.

Agreed.

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

TBH I think the I-of-I scum are as potentailly dangerous as the BNP. I would have absolutely nothing to do with them - unless it was in the context of smacking them in the mouth.

I agree in a way, except the comparison with the BNP is stupid.

 

[editor]

I agree in a way,

Good job they're not asking you to talk at one of their shindigs then, isn't it?

Here's three of the people that were on my panel: George Brock, Saturday editor, The Times; Richard Ayers portal director and editor of Tiscali and David Schlesinger, managing editor, Reuters.

I was rather interested in the prospect of having a chat with these people and seeing what I might learn from them, but I guess we were all unwilling pawns in the IoI's evil world domination plans, yes?

 

[nonamenopackdrill]

Good job they're not asking you to talk at one of their shindigs then, isn't it?

Here's three of the people that were on my panel: George Brock, Saturday editor, The Times; Richard Ayers portal director and editor of Tiscali and David Schlesinger, managing editor, Reuters.

I was rather interested in the prospect of having a chat with these people and seeing what I might learn from them, but I guess we were all unwilling pawns in the IoI's evil world domination plans, yes?

No, I don't think that at all and I'm not having a go at you at all. I do know the history behind Furedi and Fox and that though, and it's manipulative.

Incidentally, my wife knows Schlesinger.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I remember Cohen but I hadn't realised he'd joined the IoI bunch.

There seems to be no evidence, other than the passing comment by Larry O'Hara, that Nick Cohen is part of that mob.

He's in enough trouble with The Left™©® without that sticking to him. Unless someone has any evidence otherwise!

 

[nino_savatte]

in what way dangerous? ..

(used to some of rcp style 20 year ago) ..

They're cultists who have insinuated their way into plenty of areas. But they seem singularly obsessed with culture in a way that's reminiscent of the CIA's cultural activities during the Cold War.

 

[nino_savatte]

Exactly. In fact the very title is typical. Suggesting there's no real left remaining and the best they can do is cosy up to the rulers.

I feel sick.

Essentially what ther IoI have done is put forward narratives for 'debate' when the outcome of the debate is, in their minds at least, a foregone conclusion.

 

[nino_savatte]

Wainwright is the only leftist on that line up. It displays typical poor judgement on her part to join such a line up and give it any credence as a 'left' discussion whatsoever.

Red Pepper is nice. Nice and boring.

I think you'll find that the IoI will always have at least one token leftist onboard, even if her credentials are questionable. But it's their narrative (contained in the title) that claims that there is no "left" anymore...so what are they suggesting? That the right is in the ascendency? That there is no choice but the right?

 

[editor]

Essentially what ther IoI have done is put forward narratives for 'debate' when the outcome of the debate is, in their minds at least, a foregone conclusion.

Mine wasn't.

I said exactly what I wanted and rubbished their bloke's opinion several times - and who knows - maybe my dashing wit and repartee impressed some of the audience and they may have changed their minds on the subject!

 

[The Black Hand]

becasue they seem to have a deliberate agenda of introducing some very dodgey ideas (e.g r/wing libertarianism - attacking the welfare state - attacking climate change theories) into the mainstream under the cover of being 'left radicals' - they seem to have an astonishing amount of influence in and access to the mass media.

If they are not already in the pay of some very dubious r/wing neo-con organisations they are missing some very lucrative funding opportunities.

I find their methods, their deliberate deception and level of influence very disturbing - they remind of the scientologists.

The parrelel with the BNP is on the level of tehy both work hard at giving a venner of repectibility for ideas that are destructive, distorted, poisonous and serve the agenda of biulding support for their own power base.

Yes I agree with this... Leftists with no working class relationships are parasitic on the back of real poverty/oppression/suffering and have been tolerated for far too long.

 

[nino_savatte]

Mine wasn't.

I said exactly what I wanted and rubbished their bloke's opinion several times - and who knows - maybe my dashing wit and repartee impressed some of the audience and they may have changed their minds on the subject!

I have to say, I find it very creepy how they've wormed their way into many cultural spheres. Fox is a resident contributor to The Moral Maze on R4 and when the news media needs a libertarian talking head, they go to Fox.

But the title is a narrative because it suggests that there is no left in the UK, when that isn't true.

 

[treelover]

Imo, what they mean is 'their left', the champagne socialist left and the left wing mileu which was often born into it, eg communist parents, is on its way out, midlife crises and all

There's the door!

 

[nino_savatte]

Imo, what they mean is 'their left', the champagne socialist left and the left wing mileu which was often born into it, eg communist parents, is on its way out, midlife crises and all

There's the door!

How unrepresentative. No one, in their right mind, would claim that the totality of left politics in Britain begins and ends with Nu Labour or the soi-disant "champagne socialists". The only folk who would are either Tories, The BNP, or the IoI/Spiked cultists. That's another narrative.

 

[editor]

I have to say, I find it very creepy how they've wormed their way into many cultural spheres.

Well, the only way they've 'wormed' their way on to u75 is on these boards and that's hardly been flattering!

 

[treelover]

er, thats what i meant, a very narrow prism to look at the left, for example, the new LP young socialist network already has over 100 members.

How unrepresentative. No one, in their right mind, would claim that the totality of left politics in Britain begins and ends with Nu Labour or the soi-disant "champagne socialists". The only folk who would are either Tories, The BNP, or the IoI/Spiked cultists. That's another narrative.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yes I agree with this... Leftists with no working class relationships are parasitic on the back of real poverty/oppression/suffering and have been tolerated for far too long.

Do you have any suggestions as to how this might be adressed? Perhaps there could be an exam. Or a bureau to carry out investigations, and issue a Certificate of Authenticity. A Charter Mark, if you will. There could be a system of Tribunals to deal with appeals, and a special Register. Maybe there could be different levels as well, with Fellowships, and the like.

Or am I being silly now?

 

[HackneyE9]

If you look at it on a cui bono basis, editor, I think they get more out of having you on the panel, Urban 75 legitimizing them, than you get from being on it.

'Course, I don't know how much they paid you!

But they are a deeply dodgy bunch - I don't mind being lectured by rightwingers who call themselves rightwingers - it's when they go under the guise of the Left that if fucks me off.

 

[charlie mowbray]

Wainwright is the only leftist on that line up. It displays typical poor judgement on her part to join such a line up and give it any credence as a 'left' discussion whatsoever.

Red Pepper is nice. Nice and boring.

I was at a meeting where she spoke with Roy Hattersley and she said that Hattersley was to the left of her! Whaaaaaa.......!!!!!

 

[editor]

If you look at it on a cui bono basis, editor, I think they get more out of having you on the panel, Urban 75 legitimizing them, than you get from being on it..

If that's the case they certainly haven't done much of a job of bigging up any supposed connection with them.

So far it's only earned them criticism and scorn here. I'm hardly defending them either.

 

[dennisr]

So far it's only earned them criticism and scorn here. I'm hardly defending them either.

I think its more a case of "blimey... editor, I'd be wary of that lot" than any personal scorn

 

[Groucho]

I was at a meeting where she spoke with Roy Hattersley and she said that Hattersley was to the left of her! Whaaaaaa.......!!!!!

What? Seating arrangements you mean? Not quite sure what she would be getting at there.

Hattersley is of course as right-wing as he always was ('explemplawawy sthentensthes' ) but in today's LP he is on the left!

 

[laptop]

Here's three of the people that were on my panel: George Brock, Saturday editor, The Times; Richard Ayers portal director and editor of Tiscali and David Schlesinger, managing editor, Reuters.

I was rather interested in the prospect of having a chat with these people...

But how front organisations work is to exploit that curiosity, to get people on panels such as that, to produce the appearance of open debate.

Everything the IoI does is a front for the LM project. Whatever the fuck that is.

Anyone know whether Wainwright is fully informed about what she's getting into?

Anyway:

Sold out.

 

[editor]

But how front organisations work is to exploit that curiosity, to get people on panels such as that, to produce the appearance of open debate.

I had an open debate and said what I liked, disagreeing with the IoI bloke next to me several times. In fact he made a couple of stupid, ignorant comments and I was quick to correct him.

 

[laptop]

I had an open debate and said what I liked, disagreeing with the IoI bloke next to me several times. In fact he made a couple of stupid, ignorant comments and I was quick to correct him.

But you're still talking about (your perception of) the content of the event. I'm talking about the propaganda value of the occurrence of the event and the participant list.

To be blunt: appearing on the bill for a front organisation lends credibility to its lie.