What's in a name?

[andysays]

Everyone has a common matrilineal ancstertor, Mitochrondrial Eve, they've found it in the DNA somehow. Look it up on the wiki.

Also do you know about movement of the tectonic plates. Australia used to be joined up with, maybe Asia, not sure.

Yeah, I accept that, but great granny Eve goes back a lot further than 3000 years.

As I understand it, it's more about the rise and fall of sea levels than movement of tectonic plates. Humans arrived and established themselves in Australia about 40,000 years ago, and apart from a small amount of contact from New Guinea over the past 3,000 years, the continent was largely cut off from the rest of the world until the first Europeans arrived there 400 years ago.

 

[andysays]

This is worth looking at if you're interested:

Early human migrations

 

[8115]

This is worth looking at if you're interested:

Early human migrations

I've seen Ice Age already

 

[andysays]

And there's also a wiki page for a book I'd recommend to anyone,

Guns, Germs, and Steel

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies is a 1997 transdisciplinary nonfiction book by Jared Diamond, professor of geography and physiology at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). In 1998, it won the Pulitzer Prize for general non-fiction and the Aventis Prize for Best Science Book. A documentary based on the book, and produced by the National Geographic Society, was broadcast on PBS in July 2005.

The book attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations (including North Africa) have survived and conquered others, while arguing against the idea that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral or inherent genetic superiority.

Diamond argues that the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate in environmental differences, which are amplified by various positive feedback loops. When cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example, written language or the development among Eurasians of resistance to endemic diseases), he asserts that these advantages occurred because of the influence of geography on societies and cultures, and were not inherent in the Eurasian genomes.​

 

[Santino]

This is based on the same crude argument from above, and fails to take into account patterns of human population movement.

For example, can you explain how I, who am descended entirely from Europeans over the past 3,000 years (possibly with the occasional western Asian or northern African thown in along the way), have a common ancestor with every single native Australian?

It's not based on a crude argument, it is based on a detailed model. Now, the model may have yielded incorrect information, but it is more sophisticated than just saying 'but Australia'.

For one

I, who am descended entirely from Europeans over the past 3,000 years

betrays the most dreadful ignorance about human migration.

 

[Ax^]

I know a fella back home call Anus..


Oddly he is overfond of the gym and you should not poke fun at his name...

 

[andysays]

It's not based on a crude argument, it is based on a detailed model. Now, the model may have yielded incorrect information, but it is more sophisticated than just saying 'but Australia'...

If it's not just a crude argument, maybe you'd like to give us some of the details of this model so we can judge it for ourselves. So far you've just made an assertion with nothing whatever to back it up.

I haven't said "but Australia", I have given one example which I suggest demonstrates the crudeness and wrongness of your assertion. Further examples are available...

...For one

betrays the most dreadful ignorance about human migration.

And your partial and distorting version of my post doesn't make it look like you're interested in a sensible discussion. I'll admit that the original may have been slightly simplistic - put that down to the lateness of the hour - but I don't think it negates my basic point, which is that until very recently, certain groups of people, the most obvious but not the only example of which is native Australians, were effectively seperated from the rest of the world's population for tens of thousands of years, and it's therefore impossible for us all to have common ancestors from about 3,000 years ago.

Obviously if you go back many tens of thousands of years, we do have common ancestors, but that's not what we're currently discussing.

 

[Santino]

I understand the model takes into account the rate of small-scale migration between isolated communities. One of the findings of the research was precisely that supposedly isolated communities are not actually completely isolated for long periods.

Can't find the article I was reading but I'm still looking.

 

[Santino]

Lots of google results for trade links between pre-European Australia and Indonesia though.

 

[andysays]

I understand the model takes into account the rate of small-scale migration between isolated communities. One of the findings of the research was precisely that supposedly isolated communities are not actually completely isolated for long periods.

Can't find the article I was reading but I'm still looking.

OK, I'm interested in seeing this if you can find something substantive.

My argument is based on stuff from Guns Germs and Steel which I linked to above - there may be other theories which conflict with that which I'm unaware of...