What's all the fuss about.

[Bernie Gunther]

So what are the benefits to the British public of involving the UK in the disastrous US adventure in Iraq Tony?

Presumably they must be pretty big benefits if they outweigh the costs in lives, terrorism on our public transport system and spiralling oil prices?

 

[Tony Blair]

What is this nebulous "consensus" of which you speak?
What possible opportunity does the electorate have to change this?
The tools of democracy are not in the hands of the electorate. We can't do anything, and you know it. That's what allows you to rule essentially by diktat. When are the public consulted? I can air my greivance with you at the ballot box. Once every 4 or 5 years. Oh boy, do I feel represented now. My views are clearly being taken into consideration. Honestly, for a man who's risen so high you have surprisingly poor reasoning skills. Probably this inability to see beyond the end of your nose is what saves you from having to feel guilty about your actions.

See above.

I happen not be Chirstian.
Therefore, by your own logic, you can never represent me.
Do you not think that the de facto disenfranchisement of vast numbers of people in this country on the basis of their religious beliefs and heritage is somewhat short-sighted?
Ultimately, as an Anglo-Christian, you must believe that all muslims, jews, hindus, sikhs, jains, buddhists and every other religion are damned to hell as they do not accept Jesus as their saviour.

Not all of them by any means. But actually I do think there's some truth in the idea that not accepting Jesus as our saviour causes the world to go to hell, but not in any otherworldly sense. The thing is, in the absence of the second coming, the world faces a severe problem of overpopulation, and the big picture is that unless something is done about that, we all face disaster. It is unfortunate for the poor of this world that things are the way they are, but the thing about humans is that they breed, almost like rabbits, particularly when the going is good. And honestly for the good of the whole planet, I think life needs to be tough, in order to discourage those who can't support themselves from multiplying. Many people have observed that humanity is like a cancer on the planet. What are we supposed to do about it?

Actually, my branch of the church is a long way from the evangelical fundamentalist view you claim I have. We're fare more ecumentical than that. I don't claim any knowledge of the afterlife, or how God judges things, except that it's probably quite different from your judgement. Maybe I can't represent you, but in that case, work out what it is you want, and find someone who will represent you, and vote for them.

Do you think that this view can ever be compatible with working in the best interests of the people you govern.
Christianity as instantiated by your church is needlessly divisive and I maintain that it has no legitimate place in determining the actions of my government.
The (man-made, not divine) law of the land may well state that the Queen is g_d's representative on earth, but YOU are not. Have the grace to remember that. Would Jesus condone the invasion of Iraq?
No, of course he wouldn't.
Whoever you are (I don't for a minute imagine that the PM has time to ponce about arguing with people on bulletin boards) you believe in this shit, you're going to go to hell for all the people you've caused to be slain. This at least comforts me.

Would Jesus condone the invasion of Iraq? Well, if he's not here to ask, how can we know? All we can do is follow our conscience. I've followed mine.

 

[Tony Blair]

that's another one tony, why are more people in debt these days? why are mortgage default affecting almost as many people now as in the dark days of tory recession? why are most people in more debt than ever before just to survive? this is a worrying trend here, massive amounts of people living off of credit that comes back, as credit will, to bite them on the arse. how do you propose to lift people out of credit poverty without upsetting your rich friends?

I don't think the situation is nearly that bad. And although interest rates are outside my control, the bank of England has cut interest rates in order to ease the situation, and money is a lot cheaper than it's generally been.

 

[Tony Blair]

you know as well as i do that this isn't the case tony. the education system as it is does need a massive overhaul, but one that is led by teachers rather than politicians. in many areas the education system is fine, but the infrastructure is fucked. too many kids to teach, too much to teach in too short a time. in other areas education is in need of desperate change... too many exams, often pointless ones designed only to prove how well government is or isn't doing, schools marked and funded on the back of these exams. ridiculous.

consensus and moderation are fine, in moderation and if the consensus comes from those whose opinions are not loaded. you know as well as i do that this was a humiliation for you.

contact me by email and i will lay out some of the proposals that real teachers would like to see implemented and then we can talk.

also, i believe that politicians should index link their wages to the exact average wage of the country, thus standing to gain by making the people richer - and outlaw lobbying as it provides unfair advantage to some groups. what do you reckon to that? it makes the world fairer and more balanced and will save the taxpayer money.

No, lay out the proposals here, so we can discuss them.

But I must take issue with the idea that we're trying to control things too much. Actually, just as you suggest, we are trying to ease the workload of teachers, and to give teachers and school a lot more power to govern themselves, and to create much more variety in the types of schooling available.

 

[Tony Blair]

The abolition of parliament is tad too high a price to pay.

No-one is trying to abolish parliament, we're simply trying to ensure that a rather archaic system doesn't unnecessarily slow down the modernisation of the country that we have been elected to undertake.

 

[ZWord]

The thing is Tony Bliar is easy to do cause all you have to do is be blatantly full of shit. Thiough in some ways I see what you mean.

Well the problem I've always had with *you* is that you were elected to end Thatcherism, but in fact you continued with it, and even implemented a welfare to work policy straight out of America, when the whole deal was that people had the right not to work, and still survive, just so capitalism could continue making things more efficient. Democracy used to be about something, you left the british people with no alternatives. And you're supposed to represent a party that cares about people, not just people with money.

You do a good pisstake.

 

[Tony Blair]

But it's simply not true to suggest that all we've done is continue Thatcherism, we've introduced a minimum wage, and as I've pointed out earlier, we've stabilised the buoyancy of the housing market, to ensure wealth for a great many people.

And frankly, I don't see the virtue in paying people who don't want to work, not to work. Those who do work don't like it at all. And to be honest, I think it's good for people's lives to be encouraged to participate in our system, by working, and to make something of their lives.

 

[Iam]

Tony Blair is not a member of any public groups

Another barefaced one, then.

 

[kakuma]

tony has a fair point tho

he has no opposition

 

[tbaldwin]

tony has a fair point tho

he has no opposition

Certainly no credible left wing opposition.....They hate each other and they hate the proles too much to be any serious threat...

 

[Grego Morales]

What I really dislike about your time as PM Mr Blair is this extraordinary use of public relations. In reality, the New Labour faction only exists as a way of manipulating and distorting infomation -something that you and Messrs Campbell, Mandleson and Powell (the three architects of the New Labour concept) have done without any regard for democracy. The WMD scandal and the "dodgy dosier" was the most outrageous example of media enginneering since Joseph Goebbels. Why did you not resign over this? You have no integrity, and shall go down in history as a liar and a crook.

 

[tbaldwin]

Tony Blair must be really worried by all the people on urban75.... What a very coherent opposition......

 

[Fong]

I was referring to the thing about consultancy companies.

So your evidence is (a) anecdotal, and (b) from Private Eye, which is hardly a respectable or trustworthy source. It's a publication that makes its living by pandering to the prejudices of those who like to carp and criticise, and believe the worst of the government in every case.

On ID cards. Well it's going to be paid for by you, the people, so it won't take anything extra out of government coffers.

So you will introduce new taxes to pay for the ID cards?

As to Alastair Hughes, I expect the Telegraph is just a meanspirited tory rag out to get you too?

Or will you continue to deny the man worked for you, created a mess of a scheme and now earns bundles working for the consultancy service you pay to explain the system he created.

You completely ignored my question as to why Consultants are not included in budget reports, you did not explain how through this trickery you are capable of "efficiency", when in fact you have spent far more then you did previously, simply by tagging that extra money as 'special' and off budget.

 

[bluestreak]

I don't think the situation is nearly that bad. And although interest rates are outside my control, the bank of England has cut interest rates in order to ease the situation, and money is a lot cheaper than it's generally been.

unfortunately it is that bad. the CCCS and other debt-management charities are reporting massive rises in people with debt-problems. you really are out of touch with the vast majority of people's lives aren't you?

 

[teqniq]

Well, this is a bit surreal I've seen it all now. Ta

 

[sheothebudworths]

It's very good, but somebody's going to be in trouble over dual registrations.

ID cards wouldn't solve that, eh?

 

[sheothebudworths]

(Is it his day off then?)

 

[bluestreak]

No, lay out the proposals here, so we can discuss them.

But I must take issue with the idea that we're trying to control things too much. Actually, just as you suggest, we are trying to ease the workload of teachers, and to give teachers and school a lot more power to govern themselves, and to create much more variety in the types of schooling available.

you are not trying to ease the workload of teachers - their workload is increasing exponentially. nulabour plans to introduce more teaching assistants is a good idea in principal but isn't working well, we're ending up with untrained and low paid workers who often make the situation worse. your plans don't allow teachers to govern themselves, they allow interest groups to govern education, and by variety you mean schools that specialise in one area at a loss to many others. variety is needed in education at each school to allow pupils to find what is best for them. it's no good having a specialist PE school and all the best PE teachers there if the kids who aren't good at PE are lacking decent education in areas that they are good at. ofsted is widely considered a joke amongst teachers, did you know that?

many of today's teachers aren't intending to stay in education long. it's seen as a stop-gap career choice, a chance to earn some money in a few years and get out before you burn out. that's a shambles, and you know it. did you know that some schools are actually taking on NQTs and giving them leadership roles because no-one else will do the job? that's a shambles. handing over responsibility to interest groups is just removing schools from being your problem.

you know as well as i do that if the left wasn't so busy bickering amongst itself and the right weren't waiting for the wheels to fall off nu-labour (which is what they're doing, btw, biding their time, making you look stupid and hoping no other alternative comes along first) then you'd be fucked.

answers to the other questions wouldn't go amiss. oh, and how do you feel about the stuff on the bbc news about all the secret loans?

 

[Fong]

Just in case you do feel that the Telegraph is somewhat biased against you, since it is called the Torygraph in the Eye.

Here is a report from Accountancy Magazine, which I can only imagine absolutely love your government from the amount of work you have created for them over your tenure so far.

Senior government healthcare expert Alastair Hughes has joined Ernst & Young’s government services practice. Hughes recently led the cabinet office’s reforms on Patient Choice strategy for the prime minister’s delivery unit.

So he led the cabinet office reforms on Patient Choice, just like P-E said, and he has moved to Earnt & Young, not just moved to that company, but moved to that companies Government Services Practice, which consults with the government.

Just so we are absolutely clear that this is not a malicious attack by Private-Eye.

 

[bluestreak]

.

 

[Tony Blair]

Just in case you do feel that the Telegraph is somewhat biased against you, since it is called the Torygraph in the Eye.

Here is a report from Accountancy Magazine, which I can only imagine absolutely love your government from the amount of work you have created for them over your tenure so far.

Senior government healthcare expert Alastair Hughes has joined Ernst & Young’s government services practice. Hughes recently led the cabinet office’s reforms on Patient Choice strategy for the prime minister’s delivery unit.

So he led the cabinet office reforms on Patient Choice, just like P-E said, and he has moved to Earnt & Young, not just moved to that company, but moved to that companies Government Services Practice, which consults with the government.

Just so we are absolutely clear that this is not a malicious attack by Private-Eye.

I,ve read the link. But I don't understand at all what there is to complain about in any of that. Alastair Hughes is an expert in his field, and that's why he was employed by the government, and he was then recruited by Ernst and Young, because they realised that he had the necessary expertise and understanding of government thinking. It's just a case of talent being rewarded by the private sector, and while I can understand why some people might be jealous, I and most people don't think that there's any merit in the government trying to stop talent being rewarded; Do you think we should?

 

[Tony Blair]

unfortunately it is that bad. the CCCS and other debt-management charities are reporting massive rises in people with debt-problems. you really are out of touch with the vast majority of people's lives aren't you?

Again, this may be true, and perhaps it's unfortunate; but I don't see how it's possible to claim that this is the government's fault. More people are deciding to borrow money, and some of them are finding it difficult to keep to the terms of the loan. What would you do about it? Would you like to make it illegal to borrow money. Or do you suggest that the government pays off people's debts? Or is the point that somehow, as a government we should miraculously ensure that people don't borrow money irresponsibly. Quite apart from this. A lot of people find that the ability to borrow money cheaply, makes it possible for them to take control of their lives in a way that is unprecedented historically. And the economy as a whole benefits from this. Which means we all do.

Why do you think people are borrowing more money? And how do you think the government should help them not to?

 

[Tony Blair]

So you will introduce new taxes to pay for the ID cards?

As to Alastair Hughes, I expect the Telegraph is just a meanspirited tory rag out to get you too?

Or will you continue to deny the man worked for you, created a mess of a scheme and now earns bundles working for the consultancy service you pay to explain the system he created.

You completely ignored my question as to why Consultants are not included in budget reports, you did not explain how through this trickery you are capable of "efficiency", when in fact you have spent far more then you did previously, simply by tagging that extra money as 'special' and off budget.

All I can say to you is that I and others take a very different view of what's going on. Getting the best value for money, when reorganising a department, requires a great deal of expertise, and knowledge of existing practice, and it is only sensible for a government to employ the best people to do so. You don't understand how carefully a system has to be organised in order to make it accountable, and in order to ensure it's not vulnerable to fraud, and that's just a small part of it.

As the consultant fees are paid at the inception of a new project it would be misleading to include them in statistics regarding the value for money of the project, as they are not part of the year by year cost of the project. To do so would create a misleading impression that the cost of the consultants was part of the ongoing cost of the project.

Ernst and Young naturally also want to employ the best people with the most understanding, as their performance depends to some extent on their having a good understanding of government thinking and government practice, and their clients value their advice and knowledge. What's the problem with that?

 

[TAE]

This message is hidden because Tony Blair is on your ignore list.

 

[William of Walworth]

Utterly surreal thread. Must not read threads like this late on a Friday night

 

[Grego Morales]

President Blair, can you tell me why Lord Adonis Of Camdem's ( ) appointment as minister for schools is not a rather crooked affair? After all the man was not democratically elected by the British public and therefore has no right be be in charge of such a sensitive department dealing with issues such as the City Academy project. What's the point of having a representative government if you can just pick and choose whatever Blairite sycophant you wish to put in your cabinet?

 

[Fong]

All I can say to you is that I and others take a very different view of what's going on. Getting the best value for money, when reorganising a department, requires a great deal of expertise, and knowledge of existing practice, and it is only sensible for a government to employ the best people to do so. You don't understand how carefully a system has to be organised in order to make it accountable, and in order to ensure it's not vulnerable to fraud, and that's just a small part of it.

As the consultant fees are paid at the inception of a new project it would be misleading to include them in statistics regarding the value for money of the project, as they are not part of the year by year cost of the project. To do so would create a misleading impression that the cost of the consultants was part of the ongoing cost of the project.

Ernst and Young naturally also want to employ the best people with the most understanding, as their performance depends to some extent on their having a good understanding of government thinking and government practice, and their clients value their advice and knowledge. What's the problem with that?

Whats the problem with that?

You don't see a conflict of interest for government employees when they can create schemes that only they can fully understand, and then charge the government private consultant rates to explain?

Of course you don't.

Aren't you also responsible for allowing Government workers to forego their absence from working in their respective field in the private sector? oh yes that is right, it is you who are ultimately responsible for allowing Army Generals to leave their post and walk straight into a post with a private company working on....government army contract procurement.

No conflict of interests of course. Apparently that is a word you don't understand, which is quite evident by you giving peerages to people who lent your party money.

No conflict of interest there either no doubt.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Fucking cynical corrupt bastards. If he ever comes back I think we should ask him about the US gambling industry and how it 'persuaded' Jowell and the gang to get so keen on setting up mega-casinos all over the UK. Exactly how is that in the interests of the British public as opposed to those of American casino gangsters?

 

[Joon]

Hello Tony,

Here is a question I would like answered.

Your friend, Melvyn Bragg, in 2004, disclosed that you were on the verge of quitting. Bragg is quoted at the time as saying ""The real stress was personal and family, which matters most to him," Bragg told a TV interviewer. "And my guess is that consideration of his family became very pressing and that was what made him think things over very carefully."

He also stated that whatever the problem was, it was nothing to do with your marriage.

Whatever it was that caused you such pressure has never been revealed in the media and has been a source of much speculation.

Can you now tell us what was the source of that stress that nearly made you give up public office?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Internet chums, I think Tony's logged off for the night. Be fair, he'll have missed the first part of The West Wing to post - unless he saw it on More 4+1.