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What's a dead biker worth these days in Wales ??

I don't disagree that bikers should treat all car drivers as total twats (Defensive riding as it is officially called). I have posted to this effect repeatedly.

My point is purely and simply that they are NOT responsible when someone takes them out. It is NOT there fault that they were not looking for twats enough.

The DfT do NOT run adverts with drivers of cars not seeing someone driving like a twat and suggesting they are to blame in some way for not driving defensively enough.
 
detective-boy said:
The DfT do NOT run adverts with drivers of cars not seeing someone driving like a twat and suggesting they are to blame in some way for not driving defensively enough.
Click to expand...

True, but car drivers aren't getting killed so often by other car drivers who don't see them.

It's not a "lets make this a motorcyclist's responsibility" thing on the DfT's part, it is a "lets find a way not to end up with so many dead motorcyclists" thing.

It IS a two-pronged approach, drivers are being targetted as well as motorcyclists. But if advising motorcyclists to drive defensively is going to help reduce accidents, surely it is a good thing?

Interesting reading on the 'Think!' website - including a link to a report of a study on the causes of motorcycle accidents.

Think!

Some stand-out facts:

-over a third of all accidents involving motorbikes are a 'right of way violation' - most frequently a car pulling out of a T junction into the path of an oncoming bike.

-A whooping 2/3rds of these are caused by 'looking but not seeing' - where a driver supposedly checks but doesn't see an apparantly obvious motorbike.

-There is some references to research which has tried to uncover the reason for this, eg it appears to be quite common that a person has looked but fails to register a bike because their experience is telling them to look out for cars and bikes get 'filtered out'.

Anyway, interestingly the DfT has just launched a new campaign and they have deliberately gone for different approaches for car drivers and motorcyclists because they felt the feedback from their previous campaign "suggests that encouraging riders and drivers to 'look out for each other' reinforces the blame culture that exists between the two groups." :rolleyes:


(I should just mention I'm not trying to be antagonistic by keeping on about this - I do research with motorists for an living so it is professional interest)
 
detective-boy said:
I don't disagree that bikers should treat all car drivers as total twats (Defensive riding as it is officially called). I have posted to this effect repeatedly.

My point is purely and simply that they are NOT responsible when someone takes them out. It is NOT there fault that they were not looking for twats enough.

The DfT do NOT run adverts with drivers of cars not seeing someone driving like a twat and suggesting they are to blame in some way for not driving defensively enough.
Click to expand...

Sorry man if you thought I was having ago. I wasn't.

What I was saying is that as a biker if you get taken out by a stupid motorist then the rider has misjudged a situation. Its a mistake, they happen, its life.

A mistake that as bikers we cannot afford to make as we come off worse.

The driver of the car is ok a little shaken up but he'll walk away from it or run and hide.

Because of this, because we come of worse, becuase its our lifes etc, and the point of all this is that as bikers we have to take on the responsability for our own survival as we cannot rely on someone else to have our best interests in the forefront of there minds.

Car drivers don't care about our safety, all they're interested in is picking up the kids, gotta get this deal. I wonder if that really is just a rash. . stuff like that.

Van drivers don't care about our safety, they're thinking about getting this next drop done then it job and finish, oh and Im knackered been on the road since. . .etc

Lorry drivers don't care about our safety they're thinking about, well pretty much the same as van driver but there tacho times and why is that cunt of a car driver cutting up the inside when Im indicating left and swinging out for the turn etc.

Bus driver well what do you reckon ?

Peds you think they'd have they're own best wishes at heart but that plays second fiddle to OMG LOOK AT THOSE SHOOOOOOOOOOES, gotta catch the number 18, who's that text from ? God my feet hurt etc





The last thing on any of those people minds is motorcyclist.

As a biker it is the first thing on ours.

Our survival is our responsibility cos basically none of the above GIVE A SHIT wether I get home alive or not. I on the other hand do. So its up to me to not allow myself to be in a position where some fucktard is gonna catch me out.

Does that sort of make sense ?
 
djbombscare said:
Sorry man if you thought I was having ago. I wasn't.

What I was saying is that as a biker if you get taken out by a stupid motorist then the rider has misjudged a situation. Its a mistake, they happen, its life.

A mistake that as bikers we cannot afford to make as we come off worse.

The driver of the car is ok a little shaken up but he'll walk away from it or run and hide.

Because of this, because we come of worse, becuase its our lifes etc, and the point of all this is that as bikers we have to take on the responsability for our own survival as we cannot rely on someone else to have our best interests in the forefront of there minds.

Car drivers don't care about our safety, all they're interested in is picking up the kids, gotta get this deal. I wonder if that really is just a rash. . stuff like that.

Van drivers don't care about our safety, they're thinking about getting this next drop done then it job and finish, oh and Im knackered been on the road since. . .etc

Lorry drivers don't care about our safety they're thinking about, well pretty much the same as van driver but there tacho times and why is that cunt of a car driver cutting up the inside when Im indicating left and swinging out for the turn etc.

Bus driver well what do you reckon ?

Peds you think they'd have they're own best wishes at heart but that plays second fiddle to OMG LOOK AT THOSE SHOOOOOOOOOOES, gotta catch the number 18, who's that text from ? God my feet hurt etc





The last thing on any of those people minds is motorcyclist.

As a biker it is the first thing on ours.

Our survival is our responsibility cos basically none of the above GIVE A SHIT wether I get home alive or not. I on the other hand do. So its up to me to not allow myself to be in a position where some fucktard is gonna catch me out.

Does that sort of make sense ?
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HI DJBS - talking a lot of sense there mate, this and the thread above, you've hit the nail on the head and have pointed my GF in this direction - just started riding ped, been riding 6 weeks and already 'knows' what she's doing!

Bandit still going strong heading your way March 4th (City v Forest) fancy hooking up for an hour or so on the Sunday?
 
Hi CXC

Good to hear the bandits going strong. And thanks for the compliment

Yeah it would be good to hook up. I dont know what we've got planned for that weekend but I'll try and keep it free.

Oh and I cant go anywhere near the city ground as JTG will be able to smell it on me at a thousand paces :D
 
Anyone know why the car suddenly braked, skidded and spun?

Classic example of expect the unexpected ... but, in reality, you can't - you'd never get anywhere.
 
detective-boy said:
Anyone know why the car suddenly braked, skidded and spun?

Classic example of expect the unexpected ... but, in reality, you can't - you'd never get anywhere.
Click to expand...


Cos I knew the accident was coming as it says crash etc, I was watching the car and to me it looks like a classic example of a driver on autopilot/ not paying full attention, suddenly realises that the car in front is really close and getting very quickly. The one in front may have dabbed its brakes but I cant see any flash of lights only those off the civic just before it locks it up.

I have to admit that it would have caught me out and I'd be the one on the floor.

Hindsight and all that and cos you know it going to happen you can see it coming though
 
djbombscare said:
I have to admit that it would have caught me out and I'd be the one on the floor.
Click to expand...
Would have got me too I think. I couldn't see any brake lights on the white car in front either so I can't work out why the gap was closing so quickly - and there was no need for braking to the extent of locking up so that wasn't at all predictable. You're probably right that the driver wasn't paying attention (perhaps changing radio / tapes / using mobile) and suddenly looked up and panic braked ...
 
BIG POST accident breakdown WARNING !! : )

Thing is though it does sort of highlight what we were discussing before. And yes Im playing devils advocate again. Sorry

I watched it again last night with the benfit of hindsight. ( I could only get access through the last link on the post from loud1's link)

And with the benefit of hindsight, and because you know its coming. You can see that the area the biker moves into before the crash is a bit of a danger area.

Firstly because they are overtaking a vehicle on the right. The lane that vehicle in is quite heavy and there is a very good chance that the car on the right will pull out as the lane the bike is in is less heavy. The bike is also really in the blind spot of that vehicle. So there is a real threat there.

Normally the focus of attention would be there and the bikes position would be further to the left of that vehicle with an escape route into the outside lane.

However in the outside lane there is a nother vehicle which the bike is going to undertake at the same time. ( not as illegal in the US AFAIK) the traffic in the outside lane is also heavy, the bike is entering the blind spot of the civic. So the threat os double really. In an ideal world the postion to do that would be further to the right.

Trouble is both escape routes from any oncoming danger are both covered by the other vehicles. Its also pretty likely that the bike couldn't stop in the distance between it and the two other vehicles. So by entering that area the biker is commited and there are no options.

Concentration is already being split over two threats, so this point is easy to miss.

If you see the car on the left, the one that hits the biker you can see that it is travelling a fair rate faster than the one in front. It is going to run out of road and there are no brake lights on yet.So the likelyhood is its going to brake hard or switch lanes. Its speed is pretty much comparible to the speed of the bike. Reference this against the right hand car and they are almost stationary in comparison.

So it will take longer to get past the car on the left which is running out of road. Mind you theres more vehicles on the right to pass so each time you pass one ist replaced with another. So the threat will continue with other vehicles as you move on down the road.

So I know that that is with the benefit of hindsight and because we know it is coming, but TBH given all that, I would be reluctant to go in between the two cars. I'd have slowed up, held back in the space behind until the civic had slowed up and have the option of ducking behind the silver car on the right in case something happened or even out into the outside lane if needed. So I've made two escape routes for myself if I need them.

The above seems to be a lot to take in a short space of time. But if you assume that its going to happen ( not in as much detail obviously all you have to assume is that one of them is going to pull out ) You have exactly the same benefits that we have looking at it now with hindsight and the knowledge that it is coming.

So although the car driver is a complete knobby fucktard the bikers mistake is not paying 100% attention to that car but then they cant really because of everything else. When you add in that the biker maintain the revs til when the car was almost right across the lane then braked.

So in all honesty it would have got me, but if we assume something like that is going to happen it could probably still have been avoided

Like Detective Boy said expect the unexpected.

In reality though we wouldn't and we'd be on the floor
 
I think you're right that the bike was increasing the risk by being the "meat in the sandwich", with both escape routes blocked simultaneously.

Think both the car and the bike were probably approaching the back of queueing traffic on a fast road too quickly (i.e. not looking far enough ahead (or probably at all in the case of the car!) and not easing off or braking soon enough) - a huge number of motorway / dual carriageway accidents happen at the end of tailbacks but don't usually manage to collect a bike.
 
i ride defensively these days (one crash too many)



that would have got me. On first watching my attention was on the right hand lane but on second watch you can see the driver in the LH lane get closer and closer to the car in front so could anticipate the heavy braking.


i think that even had the rider braked straight away the options just were not there to avoid it. re the revs thing, once i saw the car start to come across it was so close that braking wouldnt have entered my head and I poss would have tried to gas it through the ever narrowing gap. Sadly though it sounds like the bike stayed in the same gear so the power may not have been there to blip it fast enough. though watching it again it doesnt sound like the rider tried to gas it either...
 
It does sound a bit like the rider didnt even notice the car until the last minute. In which case I would assume that they were probably focusing on either the car on the right, the one in front of them, or had that tunnel vision motorway bored I wanna get home thing going on. Especially on regular daily trips.

Even though the cameras on the helmet it doesn't give an indication either way. Its on the right side of the helmet so the view of the left is a bit obscured anyway and makes it look more like they ar efocusing on the right handside rather than the left. You cnat see eye position either so its hard to tell where they were looking.
 
On the instant fireball thing.

Brings back memories of a smash i had with a bike in north wales a couple of years ago.

Classic May Bank holiday weekend, just heading home from camping with the two year old daughter and just about everyone with a bike tanking it round the windy roads near Bala. :cool:
We were heading into an s-bend and met a pack of bikers heading towards us. One biker had moved to the outside of the pack placing himself just on my side of the road, he tried to get back in but couldn't wobbled and lost the back end of the bike. The bike came right under the bumper of my car and exploded on impact. I could feel the heat through the windscreen. All this happening in a couple of seconds.

Before i had chance to figure WTF had happened two bikers who'd been traveling behind me had ditched their bikes (and i mean literally ditched them) and were dragging me and the nipper out of the car. Within 2 minutes my car exploded into a ball of flames.

Terrified he was on the bike i ran to the front of the car, before it blew, to drag the biker out but fortunately for him he'd done the right thing and let the bike (Nice new shiny triumph daytona) go as he skidded down the road on the arse of his leathers past our car. :cool:

TBH it was obvious who was at fault but did it matter? Absolutely not.

It's like the fireman said when i asked him if any of my camping kit was salvageable.

"Camping kit!! Son we just come to put the road out out and scrape up the body parts on a smash like this. Fortunately this one was just a hose job. You lot were really fucking lucky" :D

Wish I'd got the details of those two bikers, they were the fucking nutz :cool: I got to thank them there but in the daze of making statements and hugging the biker who'd hit us i missed them when they got off. Thier money is no good in Chester for life.

Even before this smash I'd always been very aware of bikes whilst driving a car. I think they really should teach car drivers more about sharing the road with bikes but whilst part of the bike culture is shredding up country roads in packs on bank holiday weekends i think there's always scope for some very bad encounters. ;)

Be safe, think bike.
 
wicked post Freida :cool:

We bikers aren't all perfect ;) and on bank holidays there are a few riders out and about who only ride bikes on bank holiday weekends. They lack some skills and can be a bit rusty but they think otherwise.

When you get a group of riders there is always one guy who is way ahead of the rest with regards capabilties and skills, thing is "Bank holiday Johnny fair weather rider " sees this guy go round the corner a certain way and thinks he can too. . . Male competitiveness his lack of skills lead him to be in a road position thats not to favourable and ooops.

But

On the other side of the coin, Mr and Mrs Sunday driver oap are out in their Rover as well.

The obligatory "oh look dear its a sheep". . . anchors on brakes or duck into a layby on the opposite side of the road without signalling or looking.

You wont usually catch me out on the bike on a bank holiday weekend.

Mind you I'll go out for a scratch pre 7am ish in the summer to avoid the traffic other than that I'm a cold weather biker :D






Oh god that doesn;t sound too tobyjuggish does it
 
i had a motorcycle smash into my car just over a year ago. i was stationary in the road indicating to turn right into a yard on the opposite side of the road. i didn't see anything or hear anything when all of a sudden a GSX1300 screamed round me at 100 miles an hour plus, a fraction of a second later his mate on a GSX650 smashed straight into the back of my car(peugeot 205). the rider came straight over the car and landed in front unconsious and bleeding from every where. i jumped out of the car to try and help and while i was with him he came to and tried to get up, i tried to stop him but he literally fought me off, telling me he needed to piss reallly bad. i couldn't believe it was possible but he stood up took off what was left of his helmet and staggered off to the road side. he undid the top half of his leathers looked down at himself and instantly lost consciousness, he hadnt needed to piss he had smashed his genitals to pulp and was arterially bleeding ( like a fountain). i'm amazed he survived although he will never have children and will never need to sit on a toilet again. it was totally his fault he was racing so close behind his mate on the 1300 that he didn't see me, and when his mate zipped round me he just kept going. the police report reckons he was doing between 100-120 mph when he hit me (i was stationary) and his bike ended up just behind my seat in the car. i can't stand bikes now, well not plastic missiles anyway.
 
twysted said:
i can't stand bikes now, well not plastic missiles anyway.
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Just because a bike can be ridden at 100 mph, doesn't mean it's safe to do so. Just because it's possible to open the throttle fully doesn't mean you should. If you don't have self-dicipline then you stick to a scooter, simple as that.

So be pissed off with reckless/irresponsible riders who don't have any idea of appropriate speeds for the road conditions, don't stereotype all riders based on what type of bike they choose to ride. (spot the pissed off race-rep rider :D)

Just as bad as assuming everyone in a volvo is a blind twat.. no wait... erm...
Shit, bad example :D

Oh, and racing on the highway ??? Doubleplusungood and dibble takes a very dim view of it indeed.

As for your experience of mashed goolies.. :eek:
 
Radar said:
Just because a bike can be ridden at 100 mph, doesn't mean it's safe to do so. Just because it's possible to open the throttle fully doesn't mean you should. If you don't have self-dicipline then you stick to a scooter, simple as that.

So be pissed of with reckless/irresponsible riders who don't have any idea of appropriate speeds for the road conditions, don't stereotype all riders based on what type of bike they choose to ride. (spot the pissed off race-rep rider :D)

Just as bad as assuming everyone in a volvo is a blind twat.. no wait... erm...
Shit, bad example :D

Oh, and racing on the highway ??? Doubleplusungood and dibble takes a very dim view of it indeed.

As for your experience of mashed goolies.. :eek:
Click to expand...
i wasn't pissed off with bikers it has just made me very scared and i get jumpy when i hear them coming.
as for the smashed goolies and head there was so much blood from so many places i just couldn't stop it, i still wake up in a cold sweat some nights and i resent the fact that i had to deal with him and it was down to me to give first aid when he so obviously didn't respect his own life or mine.
 
djbombscare said:
wicked post Freida :cool:


Oh god that doesn;t sound too tobyjuggish does it
Click to expand...

:D Naaaah but i'd bet Toby is a very good biker all the same ;)

I think you're right all round, bank holidays bring out the worst :D
 
This is strange. I can't find any mention of a sentence being handed down in this case, despite being well past the 21 days quoted in the original article.

It was heard at Swansea Crown Court and the original date of the article was the 25th Jan.

Any of our welsh brethren heard anything ??
 
meurig said:
Sentenced today - 3years. On bbc site.
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Three years :eek:

I'm not convinced about this one.

Assuming the guy doesn't pull a Bronson he'll be out in 18 months/2 years ? There was no mention of any long-term driving ban either :(
 
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