What's a dead biker worth these days in Wales ??

[Radar]

This has made me a bit angry - what do the family hope to acheive by this? It won't bring back their son, and our friend's life has already been destroyed - he had a breakdown hasn't worked since.

Perhaps their son had dependents and they're trying to provide for them ? Perhaps it's a manifestation of grief and this is their way of coping ? It could even be just the money.

I can't help but think anyone who drives a car could find themselves in this situation. I don't think I'm a bad driver but so often when I glance in the mirror there is a motorcyclist who just seems to have appeared from nowhere. It is beginning to worry me.

Anyone can be involved in an accident, there are careless bikers as well as careless drivers. If you're already checking your mirrors and looking for bikes, you're ahead of many of the drivers on the road today.

To be perfectly honest, if someone is riding like an arsehole and looking to commit suicide on two wheels you're not going to stop them

How did your friend and the bike come into contact via this right turn ? Did the bike try and make an overtake as your friend turned ? This happens time and time again, either due to the biker trying to overtake without checking indicators/allowing for possible exits to the right or the driver failing to indicate or look before turning.

I've had so many close calls like this over the years riding in London due to people making right turns without warning. One notable time the car made a right turn into a one way street - the wrong way !!

 

[beeboo]

Perhaps their son had dependents and they're trying to provide for them ? Perhaps it's a manifestation of grief and this is their way of coping ? It could even be just the money.

I don't really see any of them as a reason to inflict further suffering on this person, who has been through a lot. Although obviously I have huge sympathy for the family, I just don't think it is a very productive thing to do.

How did your friend and the bike come into contact via this right turn ? Did the bike try and make an overtake as your friend turned ? This happens time and time again, either due to the biker trying to overtake without checking indicators/allowing for possible exits to the right or the driver failing to indicate or look before turning.

I'm assuming it was something like this. This must be one of the biggest risks to motorcyclists in the city - there are road safety campaigns from both the perspective of riders and drivers about exactly this. As you say 'near misses' happen all the time.

 

[detective-boy]

I don't think I'm a bad driver but so often when I glance in the mirror there is a motorcyclist who just seems to have appeared from nowhere. It is beginning to worry me.

They are not invisible.

Look more. All the time, not just when you are starting to manoeuvre.

Watch the adverts. They're aimed at you.

 

[detective-boy]

I just don't think it is a very productive thing to do.

Why the fuck not?

If, through some negligence, your friend has killed someone (and they will not succeed in a civil case if there is no negligence) then why the hell shouldn't any dependants seek to make up for what they have lost.

I am at a total loss to understand your views. In fact, I find them extremely offensive.

 

[foggypane]

When I did my bike course i suddenly realised that I am not a bad driver, but that a good third of the people behind steering wheels shouldn't be pushing a shopping trolley, let alone driving.

After i passed I borrrowed a mates bike for a bit to get some experience of UK roads ( I used to ride in Cyprus many years ago).

The bike was a CBX750 - not a small machine. He had had it resprayed in Dyno-Rod orange, and put hi-reflective stripes on it. The headlight was always on. I am over 6 foot, and I was head to toe in hi-vis yellow, with a bright red helmet (fffnarr fnaar). I STILL had near misses with car drivers just pulling out in front of me - when I was doing less than 30 in a city! Two of these incidents led to my remonstrating with the drivers, who both said 'sorry mate I didn't see you'. FFS!

When you pull out of a junction you have no excuse for hitting anything that could have got to you from the furthest visible point travelling at anything like the local limit.

This guy is obviously a fucking clueless driver, whatever his other failings.

 

[Radar]

I don't really see any of them as a reason to inflict further suffering on this person, who has been through a lot. Although obviously I have huge sympathy for the family, I just don't think it is a very productive thing to do.

Come on If there's a couple of kids with no father to help provide for them, surely your friend has a moral & legal duty to compensate them if a civil court says so.

I'm assuming it was something like this. This must be one of the biggest risks to motorcyclists in the city - there are road safety campaigns from both the perspective of riders and drivers about exactly this. As you say 'near misses' happen all the time.

As a driver get a 360 degree vision thing going. Be aware of everything that approaches you, always indicate before you change direction and ALWAYS make a final lifesaver check before you actually turn. Even if the rider's being a prick, you'll see him before you hit him.

As a rider, assume everything else on the road (including other bikes) are out to kill you and ride accordingly. If you're approaching any sort of gap that someone could possibly make a right turn into, assume that they will

 

[Radar]

The bike was a CBX750 - not a small machine. He had had it resprayed in Dyno-Rod orange, and put hi-reflective stripes on it. The headlight was always on. I am over 6 foot, and I was head to toe in hi-vis yellow, with a bright red helmet (fffnarr fnaar). I STILL had near misses with car drivers just pulling out in front of me - when I was doing less than 30 in a city! Two of these incidents led to my remonstrating with the drivers, who both said 'sorry mate I didn't see you'. FFS!

I wonder how many dead bikers could have SMIDSY put on their headstone FFS it's a cultural acronym at this stage

When you pull out of a junction you have no excuse for hitting anything that could have got to you from the furthest visible point travelling at anything like the local limit.
This guy is obviously a fucking clueless driver, whatever his other failings.

To be fair, we don't really know. Playing devil's advocate, the biker could have accelerated into an overtake from a trailing blind spot whilst the driver was indicating and after they'd performed a mirror check. Spectacularly suicidal, but possible.

 

[foggypane]

To be fair, we don't really know. Playing devil's advocate, the biker could have accelerated into an overtake from a trailing blind spot whilst the driver was indicating and after they'd performed a mirror check. Spectacularly suicidal, but possible.

As Evans pulled out of a junction along the A40 near the Dryslwyn crossroads

So I reckon it was his fault unless the poor bastard on the bike was doing Mach 2. And the 'convoy' of bikes should have been a hint that there were bikes about. The guy's a knobber.

 

[Radar]

As Evans pulled out of a junction along the A40 near the Dryslwyn crossroads

So I reckon it was his fault unless the poor bastard on the bike was doing Mach 2. And the 'convoy' of bikes should have been a hint that there were bikes about. The guy's a knobber.

Crossed lines mate. I thought you were aiming that "When you pull out of a junction" paragraph at beeboo's friend here

Agree totally about the TV tosser I noticed that he could describe how close together the convoy was riding (and 10ft is nothing, proving you're offset from those closest to you), shame he couldn't have used those eagle eyes a few seconds later

 

[beeboo]

Why the fuck not?

If, through some negligence, your friend has killed someone (and they will not succeed in a civil case if there is no negligence) then why the hell shouldn't any dependants seek to make up for what they have lost.

I am at a total loss to understand your views. In fact, I find them extremely offensive.

Sorry, I admit I'm seeing this from a very one-sided perspective at the moment - just found out about this family friend and I'm a bit shocked.

No doubt if I had known the motorcyclist I'd be on the other side of the fence.

 

[beeboo]

They are not invisible.

Look more. All the time, not just when you are starting to manoeuvre.

Watch the adverts. They're aimed at you.

It is something I make a conscious effort to do. And I still find it shocking how often I'm surprised to find a bike has appeared since I last looked.

I'm definitely going to be giving this even more attention than I currently do.

 

[foggypane]

It is something I make a conscious effort to do. And I still find it shocking how often I'm surprised to find a bike has appeared since I last looked.

I'm definitely going to be giving this even more attention than I currently do.

Spend a few quid on a one day CBT course - you will suddenly be ten times a better driver.

 

[zed66]

From the perspective of someone that rides (and drives) if I am riding in traffic, I wouldn't necessarily expect you to see me. As long as car drivers are predictable in their actions it's not a problem. A few tips for car drivers in town.....

Don't make rapid unpredicatble changes of direction. Don't slam your car into a gap that has just opened.You are driving a car, this means you are going to be spending a lot of time either completely stationary or moving at less than five miles an hour in for extended periods of time. What do you fucking expect? You're driving a car in traffic. Self inflicted. Don't expect to have the manouverability of a pushbike or a motorcycle.

If you have to change direction in traffic don't rely on your mirrors, look over your shoulder before you move.You could hide an artic in the average blind spot of a car's mirrors (or a bikes).

Let that bike into the gap. If you don't they'll just overtake you in another thirty seconds anyway, but this time they will be laughing at you........loudly.

Did you pass your test driving one handed with your head cranked at a forty five degree angle whilst talking to a disembodied voice about what you're going to be having for tea tonight? If the answer is no put down the mobile you utter cunt.

To BMW car drivers. The four orange lenses on each corner of your car cover bulbs which can be activated by a stalk which is commonly found to the left of your steering wheel.

If your child lives less than two miles from school make them walk.You managed to do it why is your little brat so fucking precious? Yes rush hour traffic is dangerous. Why is it dangerous? That's right, because of you.

Your mirrors are at exactly the same height as 90% of motorcycle handlebars.
They can be the difference between a bike getting through a gap or having to sit in traffic. I don't expect cars to stick close to the kerb, but I also don't expect to sail past a hundred cars then have to spend five minutes sitting behind some dolt who insists on driving to the extreme right of their lane, leaving no way past.

As long as a car driver is not driving aggressively or recklessly, and follows the highway code, a bike rider has to take responsibility for their own safety,
drive in a highly defensive mannner and idealy not put themselves in positions where their safety is dependent on somebody else's actions.

 

[beeboo]

Spend a few quid on a one day CBT course - you will suddenly be ten times a better driver.

What is a CBT course?

 

[geminisnake]

What is a CBT course?

Motorbike training course. You have to have a CBT certificate to go on to do your bike test, though you don't have to do your bike test just coz you get a CBT

 

[foggypane]

Motorbike training course. You have to have a CBT certificate to go on to do your bike test, though you don't have to do your bike test just coz you get a CBT

Dead cheap, good fun, a real eye-opener. You tootle round on a little 125 for a day.

 

[djbombscare]

I dunno if anyone else has seen the new ad for think bikes on the telly. Bloke sitting in a car humming away pulls out and gets T-boned by a bike.

Pretty much shows how fast a bike that is under the speed limit comes up on a junction especially when you dont see him.

Good good advert I thought. My immediate thought was of this news story.

 

[deeplight]

simpson bandit lids dont look a bit like stormtrooper helmets for nothing you know

 

[detective-boy]

Good good advert I thought. My immediate thought was of this news story.

At least this one places the responsibility where it primarily lies - with the driver pulling out.

The first on in the series placed it on the biker, implying that they have the primary responsibility to see and avoid twats who can't be bothered looking properly. I quite agree that defensive riding is sensible but it is NOT primarily the bikers responsibility any more than the rape victim is primarily responsible for thinking if their clothing is likely to encourage any potential rapist.

 

[liquidlunch]

Been riding bikes for 30 years in aus and its no different over here.I always ride with my headlight on these days as there are blind spots for even the most alert driver.Bad luck for the bloke that was killed but you dont have much protection when the crunch comes.The cunt that was involved should be done for not rendering assistance and leaving the scene regardless of his bullshit story.Do you let murderers off because they say they were drunk and cannot remember?Like fuck you do!

 

[beeboo]

At least this one places the responsibility where it primarily lies - with the driver pulling out.

The first on in the series placed it on the biker, implying that they have the primary responsibility to see and avoid twats who can't be bothered looking properly. I quite agree that defensive riding is sensible but it is NOT primarily the bikers responsibility any more than the rape victim is primarily responsible for thinking if their clothing is likely to encourage any potential rapist.

Sorry, I don't see how you can compare those two things, they are not equivalent situations at all.

And being a rapist pretty much makes you utter scum, whereas missing a wing mirror check with fatal consequences pretty much makes you an ordinary person who makes a mistake that everyone makes sometimes, and is horribly, horribly unlucky.

I'm not condoning being negligent or careless, but I'm sure even the most careful drivers make mistakes. You surely can't compare that to being rapist?

 

[detective-boy]

I'm not condoning being negligent or careless, but I'm sure even the most careful drivers make mistakes. You surely can't compare that to being rapist?

I wasn't.

I was comparing the fact that you do not blame a rape victim for being victimised so why suggest that a motorcyclist is to blame for hitting a car driven negligently.

 

[mauvais]

I wasn't.

I was comparing the fact that you do not blame a rape victim for being victimised so why suggest that a motorcyclist is to blame for hitting a car driven negligently.

Oof! That's a true Urban style comparison, and you know it

 

[loud 1]

whilst working in a motorbike shop,the stories from the bikers coming in ever day shaking like a shitting dog because of poor car drivers..

one,a fukin Goldwing rider was forced onto the grassverge on a dual carraige way cuz this bloke "didnt see him",even tho he had his horn on...

some riders can be idiots i agree,no excuses there,but some other idiot killing u in his car......

 

[beeboo]

I wasn't.

I was comparing the fact that you do not blame a rape victim for being victimised so why suggest that a motorcyclist is to blame for hitting a car driven negligently.

I don't think anyone is suggesting motorcyclists are to blame, but it isn't particularly helpful to vilify all drivers either.

Using your rape analogy if we must, you wouldn't blame a rape vicitim for being raped, but that doesn't mean we don't advise people on how they can avoid situations where they might be more likely to become a victim.

Likewise the recent road safety campaign doesn't blame motorcyclists, but in an imperfect world where people make mistakes, it is only sensible to advise motorcyclists to be aware.

Obviously it is equally or more important to get drivers to be aware of the importance of checking for bikes. I've been doing some focus groups with people about driving recently and it is quite frightening how much people refer to 'being on autopilot' - people get cocooned in the comfort and perceived safety of their car and 'switch off'. I'm not defending this, but it is endemic behaviour.

 

[detective-boy]

I don't think anyone is suggesting motorcyclists are to blame, but it isn't particularly helpful to vilify all drivers either.

I'm not. Read my posts properly. I drive a car as well as ride a bike. I can see both sides of the issue.

Obviously it is equally or more important to get drivers to be aware of the importance of checking for bikes.

THAT is the point I am making. It is not equally important. It is more (I would say far more) important to get drivers to understand their responsibilities and drive safely. Because it is their responsibility - not the fucking victim's - when they kill someone doing nothing wrong through driving like a twat.

Perhaps we could ditch the asinine "Speed kills" tagline and replace it with "Endemic driving on autopilot kills" ....

 

[djbombscare]

I'm not. Read my posts properly. I drive a car as well as ride a bike. I can see both sides of the issue.


THAT is the point I am making. It is not equally important. It is more (I would say far more) important to get drivers to understand their responsibilities and drive safely. Because it is their responsibility - not the fucking victim's - when they kill someone doing nothing wrong through driving like a twat.

Perhaps we could ditch the asinine "Speed kills" tagline and replace it with "Endemic driving on autopilot kills" ....

Detective boy I AM totally with you however to play devils advocate for a moment.

And i have said all this before,

Beeboo is right and it is not wholeheartedly the drivers fault, we as bikers can also take a proportion of the blame as we assumed that the driver of the vehicle saw us. Which in fact they didnt.

If we assumed that they hadn't seen us we would have been in a position where we were able to avoid him or in fact stop. So yeah maybe they do pull out at the point of no return when its too late but that still means that at some point the biker judged there to be no danger and was caught in that postion. That is the fault of the rider not the fault of the driver.

The driver is guilty of being a complete and utter blind twat not paying attention etc. As a rider you always have to assume that they are so. Everytime I've thought otherwise. . ."oh they've seen me". . . they haven't. I've been hit twice, once by a girl in a Nova when I was on a roundabout and right in front of a police car, and the other by a transit van when I was in a line of traffic. ( I wasn't cutting past then or anything I was just another vehicle in the line)

I always think its better to be swearing in my helmet at them calling them the cunt that they are. rather than have bounced off the bonnet and coming round in intensive care 24hrs later going WTF ?

 

[beeboo]

I think that is where the DfT is going with campaign you were talking about.

One of the problems that they have is that people don’t identify themselves as being ‘bad’ drivers. For example, most people sometimes exceed the speed limit but they don’t consider themselves “speeders” – so the “Speed Kills” messages don’t hit home, because most drivers don’t think they’re aimed at them. I think this latest campaign is much better at resonating with people than a lot of the speeding ads.

I’d be interested to know whether you think most people sometimes “drives like a twat” or whether most people drive well and there are some people who just drive like a twat all the time. Or something else?

My theory is most people drive OK, but could drive better, and sometimes make (potentially dangerous) mistakes. The problem is they don’t necessarily even realise what they’re doing wrong.

 

[liquidlunch]

If ya ride a bike ya gotta treat every other road user as a potential threat to your balance.Be ever vigilant and expect the unexpected.Visually impaired or just plain untalented drivers will always cause accidents and being a serious rider myself i have been involved in a few embarrising moments,thanks to my expectation of car drivers capabilities and being sadly let down.A good hard boot to a door does encourage a car driver to pay attention however and also helps to make me feel better after a close shave

 

[djbombscare]

I’d be interested to know whether you think most people sometimes “drives like a twat” or whether most people drive well and there are some people who just drive like a twat all the time. Or something else?

I think pretty much along the same lines as snowpat. Every other driver on the road is an impatient blind fuckwitted ignorant cunt, hell bent on getting from A to B and fuck everybody else. They are selfish, dont give a shit who they tread on to get there, they know where they are going and thats it so get out of my way as Im more important than you All whilst listening to the radio, one eye on the sat nav, and wondering whether that blonde in HR would give good head. . . oh and there goes the phone !

You dont have to be a biker to have that opinion when I'm driving the car I can see it as well.

No all drivers aren't like that. But that is the attitude that you have to have if you want at least a fighting chance on the roads. And I perfectly accept that someone should and will have that opinion of me and my driving. I'm not the best driver in the world. . never will be. Im not the worst. I have my off days just like everyone else and yep I do make mistakes. If I make a mistake on the bike though, it might be the last one I make.

There's too many distractions in car to take you concentration away from driving. the radio, mobile phones, sat nav, DVD players and passengers/kids etc. These all engage us into to doing something else. This is what I think leads to mistakes. When I was taken off on the roundabout it was cos the driver was changing the CD. . .ON THE APPROACH TO A FUCKING ROUNDABOUT FFS. no wonder they didnt see me. We all have the opinion that oh it wont matter it'll be ok and that but its not always the case. Fuck me I even do it. " I'll just change. . . oh where's that"

*flicks open glove compartment to find tape*
*takes eyes off road. . .just for a second"

We all do it be it phone tape cd whatever. Its because we have this autopilot confidence and familiarity with our abilty to drive a vehicle. So much so that we dont even have to give it our full attention. Especially on a route we do a lot. Either that or we just switch off right to the limit of falling asleep at the wheel !!

I reckon that probably the mosty courteous and safest drivers on the road are those that have just passed their test or dont drive very often. Ok they might be a bit dithery and hesitant but they are giving it 100% concentration and er on the side of caution. A week of the daily commute however and they get turned to the darkside by the rest of the drivers on the roads.

Anyway that my two penneth for what its worth, I'm not saying they are all bad, its just that as rider /driver you have to assume that they all are if you want a fighting chance of survival on the roads.


Oh and finally in my experience the more expensive the car. . . the more ignorant and worse the driving. BMW X5's seem to be my nemesis on the roads at the moment.