True enough. The Palestianians have been in this situation for decades, it isn't just blind anger, they know what they're facing.
Whatever you think of hamas, are the continued missile attacks a good idea?
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
True enough. The Palestianians have been in this situation for decades, it isn't just blind anger, they know what they're facing.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
thanks mate you are right .. i am not saying what he says at all but it is rarely worth replying to nino as he ignores everything you say!
This is all about you, isn't it, durutti? If you can't get your own way, resort to smears - as you've done here.
You're a cheap troll and not a very bright one either.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Let's not forget also, they did elect Hamas and it would be strange for them not to realise that inevitably meant collective punishments from the Israeli government and a fair probability of a fight such as the one they're now having.
So one might reasonably deduce that a large number of people in Gaza think that the human cost is worth it if they can do some politically and/or morally significant damage to the IDF in return.
It seems like a fucking horrible price for keeping hope alive, but as far as I can make out, that's what this is about ...
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Anyone got an opinion about the relationship and contract between BP and Israel. Specifically the large quantities of gas reserves off of Gaza?
the global research article seems to be down,.
Must be a Zionist conspiracy
"The military invasion of the Gaza Strip by Israeli Forces bears a direct relation to the control and ownership of strategic offshore gas reserves.
This is a war of conquest. Discovered in 2000, there are extensive gas reserves off the Gaza coastline.
British Gas (BG Group) and its partner, the Athens based Consolidated Contractors International Company (CCC) owned by Lebanon's Sabbagh and Koury families, were granted oil and gas exploration rights in a 25 year agreement signed in November 1999 with the Palestinian Authority.
The rights to the offshore gas field are respectively British Gas (60 percent); Consolidated Contractors (CCC) (30 percent); and the Investment Fund of the Palestinian Authority (10 percent). (Haaretz, October 21, 2007).
The PA-BG-CCC agreement includes field development and the construction of a gas pipeline.(Middle East Economic Digest, Jan 5, 2001).
The BG licence covers the entire Gazan offshore marine area, which is contiguous to several Israeli offshore gas facilities. (See Map below). It should be noted that 60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline belong to Palestine.
The BG Group drilled two wells in 2000: Gaza Marine-1 and Gaza Marine-2. Reserves are estimated by British Gas to be of the order of 1.4 trillion cubic feet, valued at approximately 4 billion dollars. These are the figures made public by British Gas. The size of Palestine's gas reserves could be much larger.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11680
As has been repeatidly said. What else do they have? When they put up and shut up, the story falls out of the mainstream. Who looks worse in the glare of media attention now?
y had as much publicity in the first intifada .. as spion suggested a mass campaign against the blockade ( and wall in the west bank) by marches etc would be more productive .. imho that does not fit with hamas militarist agenda though
david dissadent
New Member
You mean between British Gas and the Palastinian authority.
'large'? 1.4 tcf (at best). Its a fucking puddle. Its two years worth of tiny Israels gas consumption. Quatar knocks that out, liquifies it and flogs it every couple of months.
Bullshit.
the global research article seems to be down,.
Must be a Zionist conspiracy
"The military invasion of the Gaza Strip by Israeli Forces bears a direct relation to the control and ownership of strategic offshore gas reserves.
Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit.
It is currently stranded gas as it has no customers, largely because Israel will not buy it and Egypt does not need it. Israels obstruction over the development of this field is relatively well documented, but Id hazzard a guess they might allow it to be developed then allow the Palastinian Authority to collect the royalties, i.e. Fatah not Hamas, as a lever to screw Hamas. Its an option anyway.
More bull. A test well on a 3tcf offshore play just came up positive over the weekend. I was thinking about sticking up a thread but then realised its such a pissing little amount of gas that even in the context of the forums obsession about the Zionist entity and the Palastinians its not really news. The IEA credits Israel with proven reserves of 11tcf, I am not sure if this Tamar play and the Gaza Marine plays have been booked and included under IEA rules (which can be pretty lose, in some cases P5 ffs!) but going on the lower figures Id say that Gaza Marine 1 and 2 are most likely to be about 12% or so of Israels total (perhaps slightly more of its offshore) gas reserves.
Global Research coming up trumps again.
My best guess is that when BG signed this contract they went in as a bit of a loss leader so they could drag a representative of the Palistinian Authorities round the capitals of Qatar and Saudi as a sweetener to play on the pro Arab image of UK plc while they whored with the big boys for action in the real fields like Haradh or North Field.
Ok so any of the geniuses on this forum care to explain how this invasion is linked to the gas?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Nigel is legendary for getting the wrong end of the stick on almost everything.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Have to look into this.
Have you got any references for this claim.?
You seem to have come up with a lot of data without references or any substantiation to back it up.
Especially BP's relationship with Palestinian Authorities,Israel, USA, U.K. EU, Arab States et al.
"The BG Group drilled two wells in 2000: Gaza Marine-1 and Gaza Marine-2. Reserves are estimated by British Gas to be of the order of 1.4 trillion cubic feet, valued at approximately 4 billion dollars. These are the figures made public by British Gas. THE SIZE OF PALISTINE'S GAS RESERVES COULD BE MUCH LARGER."
Cannot see report of 11tcf on IEA report?
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-...p=all&sp-q=Israel+Gas&sp-k=Web Content&sp-i=1
http://www.iea.org/Textbase/stats/gasdata.asp?COUNTRY_CODE=IL
However if nothing else it is being as a divide and rule tactic as a sweetner to the corrupt Fatah wing whose influence in Gaza is minimal.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
PFLP & Mortor Attacks
According to Robert Fisk article in the Independent PFLP are behind many of the Mortor attacks on Israel.
Israel's demonisation of Hamas(who have stated to recognise Israel for 30yrs(by Islamic standards recognition of the State Of Israel)) could be having their hand forced by a Secular Marxist-Leninist organisation of predominantely Orthordox Christians possibly backed by Syria.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...rockets-wont-open-a-second-front-1366728.html
According to Robert Fisk article in the Independent PFLP are behind many of the Mortor attacks on Israel.
Israel's demonisation of Hamas(who have stated to recognise Israel for 30yrs(by Islamic standards recognition of the State Of Israel)) could be having their hand forced by a Secular Marxist-Leninist organisation of predominantely Orthordox Christians possibly backed by Syria.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...rockets-wont-open-a-second-front-1366728.html
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
The PFLP have actually said so on their site.
http://www.pflp.ps/english/?q=pflp-forces-resistance-engaged-fierce-battles-thro
More in this interview here.
http://www.pflp.ps/english/?q=pflp-interview-ma-news-agency-israeli-aggression-g
I have already reported this on either this thread or another, related thread.
As for the PFLP-GC, I can't read Arabic but their site is here.
http://www.palestinesons.com/
http://www.pflp.ps/english/?q=pflp-forces-resistance-engaged-fierce-battles-thro
More in this interview here.
http://www.pflp.ps/english/?q=pflp-interview-ma-news-agency-israeli-aggression-g
I have already reported this on either this thread or another, related thread.
As for the PFLP-GC, I can't read Arabic but their site is here.
http://www.palestinesons.com/
david dissadent
New Member
I stand corrected
1,375tcf is the eia figure. As for BGs relationship with the Palastinian authrourity, well they its in the article you provided. BG signed an agreement with them, I was ruminating upon there motivation.
However the more I think about this article the nastier it looks to me. There absolutely no reason for Israel to have to invade Gaza by land to take this gas, they simply put up a rig in Israeli waters and use horozontal drilled wells to get it out. No worries, but then the real kicker is that the oil and gas belongs in part to British Gas, they have paid for rights over it. So if Israel takes the gas BG can sue them in Israeli courts, BG cannot take the gas without paying the PA there share as BG would then be liable to be sued in UK courts. BG wont be able to drill in any case as no one is going to rent them a rig or insure one sat a few miles of off the Gaza strip 'stealing' gas from Palastinians, nor can I see BG putting its contracts in the Gulf at risk for a very paltry amount of gas and Israel does not really need this gas at the minute as it has its own brand new discoveries..... it can't export it as its not enough to build a pipeline for and I am nor really sure its enough to build an LNG terminal for. This whole story just strikes me as pure make believe. But why? Well the only reason I can think of is to further blackguard Israels name. Not enought that the IDF were blowing the shit out of Gaza totaly OTT response to rocket attacks. Not even enough that the rockets were only and excuse to execute a long planed punishment raid, no they had to concot a bullshit story spuriously linking the raid with the theft of Palastinian wealth, the perfidious Jew stealing from the orphans.
ORYLY. Do yourself a favour, never risk your money investing in comodity companies. K.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
At the end of the day the biggest exploitation of the Palestinians by the Israelis has got to be water.
I don't think that its 'demonising' Jewish people to say that Israel is acting like any other Capitalist State (or rather puppet state), as far as Neo Imperialist agenda is concerned.
I don't think that its 'demonising' Jewish people to say that Israel is acting like any other Capitalist State (or rather puppet state), as far as Neo Imperialist agenda is concerned.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
According to this article in the Herald Tribune Israel 'does' have control over Gaza's Coastal Area.
"Israel still controls access to the area, imports and exports, and the movement of people in and out. Israel has control over Gaza's air space and sea coast, and its forces enter the area at will."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/08/opinion/edkhalidi.php
"Israel still controls access to the area, imports and exports, and the movement of people in and out. Israel has control over Gaza's air space and sea coast, and its forces enter the area at will."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/08/opinion/edkhalidi.php
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Are Hamas responsible completely for the Rocket Attacks.
what is Israels(along with USA's Neo Imperialsm's) interests in the region?
they control gaza, after a bloody military campaign. the idea that any other group are, without their agreement, carrying out attacks is ludicrousAre Hamas responsible completely for the Rocket Attacks.
what is Israels(along with USA's Neo Imperialsm's) interests in the region?
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
I can't say that I argee with your analysis of counter insurgency
Spion
I hear ya
The siege, the years of raids and the recent attack on Gaza are a massive, mechanized racist attack and you have the nerve to spend your time questioning the paltry response of those on the receiving end of it. You're a fucking scab
scab? nice!
that sounds like someone who has lost an arguement spion
you think when a side is losing it is wrong to question the tactics? really?
when israel bombs and kills at will you say we should not question the tactics??
maybe that is why the left is so irrelevant in this country
YOU and your liberal left who do not understand that without power solidarity is useless are part responsible for these deaths imho ..
your meaningless, vacuous, empty, impotent, 'support' .. does NOTHING for the palestinians
nationalism will forever drive them into the bullets and bombs of the israelis .. nationalism offers the palestinians nothing but decades more death and disaster cheerleaded by your good self
Spion
I hear ya
Oh do quit the hot air and tell me what should be done about the situation then?
Oh, I remember. Altogether now, "No war but the class war". Cos IDF bombs know what class you are!
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Hamas was militant long before the Palestinians elected them. Perhaps you've been paying too much attention to the propaganda websites you give so much credence to, but you should recall that they are a democratically elected government.
There's loads of non-violent resistance in Palestine. There's less scope for effective action now than there was in the first intifada, because Palestinians are no longer employed in Israel or paying tax to Israel, or able to visit Israel. There are actions every week against the wall, to remove roadblocks, marches to checkpoints and so on. And, as in the 1st intifada, non-violent action is frequently met with extreme violence. If you haven't heard about it (and I assume you haven't or you couldn't have made such an ignorant comment), it's because the mainstream media doesn't report it very often. Unless a Westerner gets killed, obv.
Is there an example of a successful resistance movement that did not use violence? I can't think of one.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Ideology before freedom! We can't have them going off and choosing the wrong sort of government, now can we. That would never do.Oh do quit the hot air and tell me what should be done about the situation then?
Oh, I remember. Altogether now, "No war but the class war". Cos IDF bombs know what class you are!
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Again, you fall back to this default position that it's all Hamas and no one else. You still don't learn.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
This poll is bad poll.
1) Rockets are not only from Hamas. Hamas are able to adhere to ceasefire. Fatah and Islamic Jihad plus other factional brigades had to be forced to stop, for which Hamas receives criticism when they do use force, or when they haven't used force.
2) I do not support Hamas, but I sympathise with Palestinians after 61 years of living as refugees in Gaza. I understand why they voted for the Hamas and believe that the blockade and refusal to negotiate with the Hamas was wrong on many levels.
3) I sympathise with the Israelis in Sderot, Ashkelon and Ashdod who suffer tremendous fear of rocket fire, but they were conned by Israeli govt. and are living on the lands from which the Palestinian refugees were driven out, 61 years ago. 61 years and no resolution has yet been reached, and for which Israel's govt. appears to have no intention of resolving.
4) I think rockets from all brigades should stop, but at same time think that Israel should end the blockade, stop targetted assassinations, and cease military operations when civilian law should be used, plus there can be no doubt that the occupation must cease as must the continued expansion of Israeli settlements and the continued seizure of Palestinians' lands.
5) I think Israeli govt, no matter which party is in power, stalls on the peace process and uses military operations where political negotiations should be used. Israel has not stopped expansion of settlements in West Bank plus outposts continue to grow.
6) If we are against religion in politics, then this is not only against the Hamas but also against the many religious-nationalist political parties who sit in Knesset. Since religious-nationalist parties are allowed a voice and participation in politics, then it must follow that we must therefore allow the Hamas a voice and participation in political life of Palestinians. The Israeli religious-nationalist parties have long been allowed their voice and participation and the Hamas arose within this broader environment. Therefore, it would be unreasonable to deny Israeli religious-nationalist their voice and participation and Palestinian religious-nationalist their voice and participation.
7) The root of the conflict has always been about the forced military seizure of territory by one religious group (Jewish) from one ethnic group (Arab Christian/Muslim) and the subsequent laws which discriminate and allow superiority of one religion (Judaism) over an ethnicity (Arab).
1) Rockets are not only from Hamas. Hamas are able to adhere to ceasefire. Fatah and Islamic Jihad plus other factional brigades had to be forced to stop, for which Hamas receives criticism when they do use force, or when they haven't used force.
2) I do not support Hamas, but I sympathise with Palestinians after 61 years of living as refugees in Gaza. I understand why they voted for the Hamas and believe that the blockade and refusal to negotiate with the Hamas was wrong on many levels.
3) I sympathise with the Israelis in Sderot, Ashkelon and Ashdod who suffer tremendous fear of rocket fire, but they were conned by Israeli govt. and are living on the lands from which the Palestinian refugees were driven out, 61 years ago. 61 years and no resolution has yet been reached, and for which Israel's govt. appears to have no intention of resolving.
4) I think rockets from all brigades should stop, but at same time think that Israel should end the blockade, stop targetted assassinations, and cease military operations when civilian law should be used, plus there can be no doubt that the occupation must cease as must the continued expansion of Israeli settlements and the continued seizure of Palestinians' lands.
5) I think Israeli govt, no matter which party is in power, stalls on the peace process and uses military operations where political negotiations should be used. Israel has not stopped expansion of settlements in West Bank plus outposts continue to grow.
6) If we are against religion in politics, then this is not only against the Hamas but also against the many religious-nationalist political parties who sit in Knesset. Since religious-nationalist parties are allowed a voice and participation in politics, then it must follow that we must therefore allow the Hamas a voice and participation in political life of Palestinians. The Israeli religious-nationalist parties have long been allowed their voice and participation and the Hamas arose within this broader environment. Therefore, it would be unreasonable to deny Israeli religious-nationalist their voice and participation and Palestinian religious-nationalist their voice and participation.
7) The root of the conflict has always been about the forced military seizure of territory by one religious group (Jewish) from one ethnic group (Arab Christian/Muslim) and the subsequent laws which discriminate and allow superiority of one religion (Judaism) over an ethnicity (Arab).
Similar threads
- Poll
