What would YOU do with the rail network?

[teuchter]

hmm I have used the trains in Germany and guess what, many of them were not on time. I think we have this unromantic notion that Germans are always efficient. Well they do have a much stronger industrial base at the moment than we do but I do not really buy that the Germanic way is the way to get the railways running on time.

I've used the trains in Germany and I would say they're pretty damn good. Not just the trains/services themselves but the whole way everything's run. It's so different from the experience in this country. The staff seem to be well trained and actually know what they're talking about, so buying a ticket for example is a straightforward and generally pleasant experience. They've got a good balance between local, regional and express services (unlike france where the local services do tend to get a bit ignored in comparison to the TGV) and have sensible arrangements with other countries' operators so they can run competitive international (including overnight) services. They do have advance purchase deals, but the system isn't overly complex and the regular fares aren't so expensive that advance purchase is the only real option for most people. Stations and trains are generally clean and well kept. Local bus services are generally integrated with trains and well run.

And the DB website is brilliant. Sometimes I even use it to check train times within the UK.

I'd have them run our trains any day ...

 

[guinnessdrinker]

(unlike france where the local services do tend to get a bit ignored in comparison to the TGV) and have sensible arrangements with other countries' operators so they can run competitive international (including overnight) services.

the first point is very valid. regions, not the state, have to subsidise services, and the SNCF, apparently, doesn't like its trains stopping at many stations.

the second point: paris vienna overnight services are actually being axed....

 

[teuchter]

the first point is very valid. regions, not the state, have to subsidise services, and the SNCF, apparently, doesn't like its trains stopping at many stations.

I think I'm right in saying that this is how it also now works in Germany (ie. local services are determined/funded to some extent by regional administrations rather than by DB). Seems to work OK for them.

the second point: paris vienna overnight services are actually being axed....

That is a shame. Do you know why? They aren't making money, I imagine?

The overnight services between Germany/austria/switzerland seem to be pretty well organised and promoted. I guess a lot of it comes down to how well the national operators can cooperate with each other.

 

[davesgcr]

The issue is that the DB spends about 4 billion Euros a year on infrastructure development (which they say is not enough !) - much of it on ex East Germany plus a few more high speed sections. They have excellent forward planning thanks to support at all levels - road fuel taxes for example fund public transport improvements.

They really do believe in the green agenda and transport integration / social railway concept hence excellent regional systems / top class Inter City. Much of the train fleet is newer than ours with about 500 new trains a year built.

Plus nearly everywhere has retained a modern tram system. Its very admirable but it costs ........

Thats not to say there arent tensions and problems there though - but overall its an exellent railway which I find very impressive indeed.Its where we ought to be

 

[Cobbles]

The issue is that the DB spends about 4 billion Euros a year on infrastructure development .

Great - all we need to do is reduce NHS spending by 3 billion quid a year and then we can spend the same on our railways.

 

[Tom A]

Great - all we need to do is reduce NHS spending by 3 billion quid a year and then we can spend the same on our railways.

Or scrap Trident and spend £12 billion on the railways.

 

[Cobbles]

Or scrap Trident and spend £12 billion on the railways.

That's another option but a one off purchase only good for a few years worth - Outsourcing the whole Civil Service to Walmart might generate sufficient annual savings though.

 

[teuchter]

Great - all we need to do is reduce NHS spending by 3 billion quid a year and then we can spend the same on our railways.

or, in the interests of a consistent approach, put some tax on aviation fuel.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

That's another option but a one off purchase only good for a few years worth - Outsourcing the whole Civil Service to Walmart might generate sufficient annual savings though.

considering the crap you get in ASDA, I am not sure it is a good idea.
and, anyway, jobcentres are already in the evil hands of Walmart.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Nationalise it and spend a fuck-load of money on it (raised from hugely increased taxes on the rich)

I'd also reopen lines such as the Monmouth to Chepstow, closing the road that replaced it to all but residents with residents' passes.

Build a Maglev link from London to every city with a population over 200,000, plus loads interconnecting non-London places.

 

[Cobbles]

or, in the interests of a consistent approach, put some tax on aviation fuel.

Can't - that would be illegal by international Treaty - we could always charge VAT on all forms of travel, though.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's another option but a one off purchase only good for a few years worth - Outsourcing the whole Civil Service to Walmart might generate sufficient annual savings though.

It is very easy to have a dig at the Civil Service.

Yet those child benefit cheques keep coming, the pensions get paid, the schools are financed...

All as if by magic.

 

[Cobbles]

It is very easy to have a dig at the Civil Service.

Yet those child benefit cheques keep coming, the pensions get paid, the schools are financed...

All as if by magic.

Businesses manage to continue to operate their core functions whilst cutting overheads - why can't Government do the same? The Gershon review has come and gone but there's no sign of any reduced running costs and therefore reduced tax bills.

 

[rich!]

If I had my way with the railways, I'd put broad-guage tracks up the motorways (You could get 6 sets of rail along a motorway. Imagine the passenger/freight density!), and start a crash fusion research program to produce fusion-powered steam trains. Ideally we'd need a special caste of people who lived and worked on them to maintain them. I nicked half of this off Ian Macdonald, of course

Oh, and I'd finance it with an inverse seat usage tax on passenger car weight and milage: for each empty seat in your car, you're charged 0.01p a kg-km.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Businesses manage to continue to operate their core functions whilst cutting overheads - why can't Government do the same? The Gershon review has come and gone but there's no sign of any reduced running costs and therefore reduced tax bills.

You suggested Walmart, one of whose central strategies for saving money is to pay their workers as little as possible. I'd rather it was inefficient than see its workers shat on from a great height.

BTW, who paid for the Gershon review? It's bureaucracy gone mad.

 

[Cobbles]

Oh, and I'd finance it with an inverse seat usage tax on passenger car weight and milage: for each empty seat in your car, you're charged 0.01p a kg-km.

If they just charged this tax on buses, then there'd be enough money for all the pixie dust powered magnetronic rail services that dandruff infested sandal wearing transport theorists could come up with.

 

[teuchter]

Can't - that would be illegal by international Treaty

we can start with domestic flights and take it from there.

 

[rich!]

You suggested Walmart, one of whose central strategies for saving money is to pay their workers as little as possible.

You mean: so little you need government benefits to work there.

Socialism in action!

 

[starfish2000]

I'd renationalise, halve the salaries of the dirty executives in railtrack and also cut the gravy train out of various other concerns, then I'd change the law on planning & consultation & build 6 High Speed Lines connecting up the whole UK. I'd cut costs by using a mix of contractual & prison Labour and thus reduce crime in the process. The prisoners would learn skills and do training course leading to qualifications etc.

I'd then run 18 car TGV's on it and turn the old network into freight routes. Thus reducing traffic further. I'd make sure fares were well priced and abandon all seat reservations.

I'd also make all suburban bus routes run to a 24 hour a day timetable set by me, all buses would be zero emissions and this would vastly reduce the need for car journeys and private taxi's. I'd also make buses cleaner, cheaper and more fun.

There is no point in taxing the motorist until a viable alternative is in place

 

[starfish2000]

If they just charged this tax on buses, then there'd be enough money for all the pixie dust powered magnetronic rail services that dandruff infested sandal wearing transport theorists could come up with.

You clearly mean the dandruff infested sandal wearers in Japan & Germany???

 

[mauvais]

I'd cut costs by using a mix of contractual & prison Labour and thus reduce crime in the process. The prisoners would learn skills and do training course leading to qualifications etc.

I like that one - good thinking. It could be a bit like apprenticeships in engineering in terms of skills.

I'd then run 18 car TGV's on it and turn the old network into freight routes. Thus reducing traffic further. I'd make sure fares were well priced and abandon all seat reservations

How would you get away with building entirely new routes? The current set were built when the UK was less densely populated and when you could just cut through huge swathes of countryside.

I'd also make buses cleaner, cheaper and more fun.

HOW would you make them more fun? *excited*

 

[Pie 1]

I like that. I'd also like proper cutlery and crockery on trains,
That's not too much to ask, is it?

No not at all. In fact I had a lovely journey from Zurich to St Gallen on Thursday morning, my hangover eased considerably by fresh coffee & croisants served at a table with proper crockery and a table cloth. (and I might add, at a normal sensible price)

It basic civility damn it! (that some miserable twat in a suit has decided costs 0.0001 of a pence to much to please the shareholder).

 

[starfish2000]

I work for a TOC that does proper cutlery and crockery. It is shit and not very hygeinic. Theres a lot too wash up and also the dishwashers on our new trains don't clean things properly.

Paper cups anyday sorry.

 

[Pie 1]

also the dishwashers on our new trains don't clean things properly.

And that my friend, kind of says it all about the state of the UK's railways doesn't it?

 

[likesfish]

use Jurassic park technology to resurrect isabal kingdom brunel give him a big wodge of cash and an SAS unit to deal with doubters and sit back jobs a good'un

 

[Tom A]

Increase the loading gague on the most busy routes, to allow for double-decker trains, particularly on London to the South Coast and the WCML, electricify the Great Western Main line, Midland Main Line, Trans-Pennine routes (particularly Manchester-Leeds and a reponened Manchester-Sheffield Woodhead route) and Crewe to Holyhead. Also add extra carridges to the CrossCountry routes, which are often the worst affected due to the introduction of Vermin Voyagers.

 

[Cobbles]

I work for a TOC that does proper cutlery and crockery. It is shit and not very hygeinic. Theres a lot too wash up and also the dishwashers on our new trains don't clean things properly.

If the dishwashers don't clean things properly then just sack them......

Having a meal served properly is one of the few things that'd tempt me on to a train. If I want a microwaved burger (whatever that is), I can pick that up at a motorway service station.

A nice thick steak and a couple of bottles of decently priced red biddy partially make up for the inconvenience having to spend longer travelling than if I flew.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

i'd change the system of governement to a local mayoiral system which then became responsible for transporation itnheir area includign a amandate to provide equality of access to all which would then receive funding froma centralises tax gathering and administration function i'd remove entirely central govermental controll for local travel issues and the set up a body which co-ordinatle (and if need be abritrated) these systems so that allt hese local lines would inter link cohestively... i'd then put up for tender the main routes based on which mayorial regions they served and who provided the greatest innovation in terms of passenger movements, transport aviablity etc. these would then be on a renewable basis of say 10 years to ensure that these companies didn't become conplacent and they would only abe allowed to retain a 35% the profits made for local reinvestment.

50% of all profits woud be mandated to be reinvested in the service and all transport companies wouldhave to be registered as not for profit.

They'd allr ecieved a regular audit and poor service will result in fines or their frnacise beign taken over by an administrative region (another region who's service was proven to be good) until it reached the required level)

 

[teuchter]

i'd change the system of governement to a local mayoiral system which then became responsible for transporation itnheir area includign a amandate to provide equality of access to all which would then receive funding froma centralises tax gathering and administration function i'd remove entirely central govermental controll for local travel issues and the set up a body which co-ordinatle (and if need be abritrated) these systems so that allt hese local lines would inter link cohestively... i'd then put up for tender the main routes based on which mayorial regions they served and who provided the greatest innovation in terms of passenger movements, transport aviablity etc. these would then be on a renewable basis of say 10 years to ensure that these companies didn't become conplacent and they would only abe allowed to retain a 35% the profits made for local reinvestment.

50% of all profits woud be mandated to be reinvested in the service and all transport companies wouldhave to be registered as not for profit.

They'd allr ecieved a regular audit and poor service will result in fines or their frnacise beign taken over by an administrative region (another region who's service was proven to be good) until it reached the required level)

That sounds like an even more complicated version of what we've already got.

And how do you reinvest profits from not-for-profit companies?

 

[teuchter]

Having a meal served properly is one of the few things that'd tempt me on to a train. If I want a microwaved burger (whatever that is), I can pick that up at a motorway service station.

A nice thick steak and a couple of bottles of decently priced red biddy partially make up for the inconvenience having to spend longer travelling than if I flew.

doesn't this already happen on most of the long distance routes?

In first class on virgin you even get free wine don't you?