What Was The USSR!

[dennisr]

Each group have different tactics. But they don't flow from their analysis of the former Soviet Union.

yep

 

[Louis MacNeice]

There's always the question of Euro-Communism.
Can't really work out the position of the CPB.
Apparently Euro Communist; many members go on about Kruschevite Revisionism & how the secretly celebrate Stalin's Birthday.
Whats the line for this lot?

Translation please, plus an explanation of why it follows my picture of a T34.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[dennisr]

Translation please, plus an explanation of why it follows my picture of a T34.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Actually, I couldn't question anyone who uploads a T34.
Now that really was the 'peoples anti-fash' tank *wipes tear from eye*
And I am lucky enough to live with one just down the road now (ok, it was pink and now has zebra stripes... but what a feat of engineering)

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Actually, I couldn't question anyone who uploads a T34.
Now that really was the 'peoples anti-fash' tank *wipes tear from eye*
And I am lucky enough to live with one just down the road now (ok, it was pink and now has zebra stripes... but what a feat of engineering)

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[dennisr]

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

thats the baby

http://www.aleksandramir.info/projects/pinktank/pinktank.html

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

28 years in 'politics' and this is the level of understanding? - ever considered joining one of the main parties - they are looking for bright sparks like you

So you think the left is united You dont think the left is made up of little groups who are more concerned with their own tribal group than the movement
Give it a few years and you will be enlightend

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I don't buy the State Capitalist argument. That would be more apt for the China of today IMO.

The USSR was communist. Just not the ideal version.

 

[Mallard]

I voted other because it does depend when exactly you are talking about. A few of those definitions could be said to be true at different times.

 

[nino_savatte]

That has certainly been mine and many others experience.

Where do you get off telling these bald-faced lies? Socialism does not favour big business and New Labour aren't socialist - Blair never once used the word.

which is why they will never (thankfully) gain any sort of power. The sad fact is I've encountered more intolerant fuckwits on the 'left' than on the right but that may be my own personal experience and others may have experienced different.

You obviously haven't met that many honest right wingers then. Why is it, these days, that you constantly bitch about how many fuckwits there are on the left while ignoring the massive failings of your new found friends on the Right?

Many of us do. It didn't change anything. I would have been better off looking after myself.

Maybe you should become a Randist; it sounds as though you need a little "Rational Selfishness".

 

[ViolentPanda]

I voted other because it does depend when exactly you are talking about. A few of those definitions could be said to be true at different times.

Yup.

 

[barney_pig]

Where do you get off telling these bald-faced lies? Socialism does not favour big business and New Labour aren't socialist - Blair never once used the word.

oh really?

As a member of CSM, I am proud of the long and strong tradition of Christian Socialism within the Labour party. But the Christian faith is not and should never be the monopoly of any one political party or section of the community. An abhorrence of prejudice based on race, class, gender or occupation is fundamental to the Gospels. It is what draws so many Christians into politics, across the political spectrum.

Some will talk of social democracy, some of democratic socialism - some of the centre, some just of the left.

"I do not minimise the real and genuine debate that underpins these terms. I simply say it is the debate that is important, not the labels

and of course the pamphlet he wrote in 1994 called....

socialism!

 

[nino_savatte]

oh really?




and of course the pamphlet he wrote in 1994 called....

socialism!

Okay, his use of the word "socialism" was rare. These are isolated examples, not the rule.

 

[Knotted]

I voted for degenerated workers state which I think is at least the best theoretical stance, but I don't think any of the theories is quite right. Non of them really give any particular insight into what's going on in Russia today.

 

[Nigel]

philosopher and 'activist' - tell me Nigel, why have so many groups pushed you away gently? why did the ex-AFA lot you hung around asking lots of questions about in the --- area avoid you like the plague and warn other groups about you?

I clearly isn't because of your 'insight'

are you a grass/spy or simply an idiot?

I'm guessing idiot?

This is absolute bullshit, slander and whats more nothing to do with the thread.

 

[ska invita]

Totalitarian Dictatorship of the Socialist Vanguard

 

[Nigel]

Yup.

I purposely did not do this, so that people would have to make a qualitative decision as to what the Soviet Union was. The reason for doing this was to make a connection between this and organisational theory and practice that individuals/organisations/parties would or do implicate based on their understanding and position on this issue.

I was going to put in Totalitarianism based on Arrandt et al, but this could lead to a completely different debate.

Also Ernst Mandel came up with something called Post Capitalist, but this is too vague and ideas; strucure in USEC/USFI are'nt particularly clear as far as I can make out.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is absolute bullshit, slander and whats more nothing to do with the thread.

Now now, Nigel, don't cry.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I purposely did not do this, so that people would have to make a qualitative decision as to what the Soviet Union was. The reason for doing this was to make a connection between this and organisational theory and practice that individuals/organisations/parties would or do implicate based on their understanding and position on this issue.

One can't make a qualitative choice from a series of non-linear. narrativised examples.
The Soviet Union was never one of those things, it was always a combination of different influences exerting different forces on parts of the political, cultural and economic structures.

I was going to put in Totalitarianism based on Arrandt et al, but this could lead to a completely different debate.

Arendt, and Arendt's conception of totalitarianism contextually differs from the "common or garden" meaning used in "popular history" narratives about the USSR.

 

[Nigel]

Repitition Repitition

Now now, Nigel, don't cry.

just trying to stop this turn into another slagging match/bun fight.

I've had these accusations put to me and answered before, there's no point in answering it.

 

[Nigel]

One can't make a qualitative choice from a series of non-linear. narrativised examples.
The Soviet Union was never one of those things, it was always a combination of different influences exerting different forces on parts of the political, cultural and economic structures.

The complexity of the situation should'nt prevent someone from coming to a qualitive answer and/or conclusion. Or are you coming in from some sort of post-modernist perspective?
It may be transfer from one to the other or maybe non of the above.
Am I missing something here?

Arendt, and Arendt's conception of totalitarianism contextually differs from the "common or garden" meaning used in "popular history" narratives about the USSR.

That is why I was going to(but did'nt) use it.
Seems to fit in with modern 'liberal democracy', which has dominance today.

 

[dennisr]

This is absolute bullshit, slander and whats more nothing to do with the thread.

idiot it is then?

 

[Nigel]

idiot it is then?

there's a good lad.

 

[dennisr]

there's a good lad.

Thing is Nige my paraniod friend I didnt say you was from---- yourself

 

[dennisr]

ohhh, ooops....

 

[dennisr]

there's a good lad.

salt of the earth me *doffs cap*

 

[Nigel]

Thing is Nige my paraniod friend I didnt say you was from ____ yourself

You just have, twice onv this thread.
Can you take this off.
Please

 

[Nigel]

Most posters on here voted Bureaucratic Collectivism!
Does this show the majority support Shachtmanite views?
Quite a depressing thought?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Shachtman

 

[butchersapron]

Well he nicked the theory off James Burnham who later became a Franco supporter, so i think these people should think again.

 

[Nigel]

Both then rejected socialism in favour of more right wing alternatives.

 

[butchersapron]

True, but MS never bigged up Franco as the saviour of western civiilisation.