Andy the Don
Wise men say only fools..
An authoritarian imperial dictatorship which suppressed its and other countries people. Not missed in the slightest.
What Was The USSR!
- Thread starter Nigel
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Who was dictating?
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
A bloody mess.
And yet life expectancy has plumeted since 1989...
dennisr
the acceptable face
aye, but now they can vote on who kills them slowly (as long as they don't expect them to listen), they can buy what they like (well, in theory - if they have a job or a job that pays...), they can go where they like (repeat previous proviso...) - its a huge leap forward
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
actually, I don't think that's true. it fell massively in the immediate aftermath of the fall of communism, but has risen back above that level since. It had been falling since the mid-sixties (bar a brief period caused by Gorbies successful anti-alcoholism campaign). It is still appallingly low, especially for men (i think it has the largest gap between the sexes of any 'developed' nation) - much lower than for men on the Gaza strip.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Sooooooooooo transparent and simplistic.
But this arguments been had many times, so pointless. More pressing things in hand.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Tradition Is Our Chains!!!!!!!
Yet many on the left still hold onto to the concept of Democratic Centralism, as a way to run their organisations. Both the major Trotskyist Organisations had meetings, overomantically celebrating the Bolshervik Revolution SP & SWP(use trotskyist liberally in this context), with a very rose tinted & blinckered view of the subject. Groups like the CPB must have done simlar stuff.
The Libertarian left seems to spend a lot of time attacking Bolshervism.
Chavis, holding up Trotsky as one of his main mentors in his Bolivarian Revolution.
Many in Russia, Eastern Europe & in a different way China(with regards to Mao) hold up pictures of Bolshervik leaders, when involved in struggles, seeing them as less corrupt than the leadership now in control.
Bolshervism, an ideology of political pracitce developed in the beginning of the 20th Century. For a country pre-capitalist.
A revolution and revoutionary movement with most of its history pre WWII. Discussion of Kruschevite and Post Kruschevite politics is minimal to that devoted to previous events.
Is'nt it about time the Left moved in and/or looked in different directions.
Yet many on the left still hold onto to the concept of Democratic Centralism, as a way to run their organisations. Both the major Trotskyist Organisations had meetings, overomantically celebrating the Bolshervik Revolution SP & SWP(use trotskyist liberally in this context), with a very rose tinted & blinckered view of the subject. Groups like the CPB must have done simlar stuff.
The Libertarian left seems to spend a lot of time attacking Bolshervism.
Chavis, holding up Trotsky as one of his main mentors in his Bolivarian Revolution.
Many in Russia, Eastern Europe & in a different way China(with regards to Mao) hold up pictures of Bolshervik leaders, when involved in struggles, seeing them as less corrupt than the leadership now in control.
Bolshervism, an ideology of political pracitce developed in the beginning of the 20th Century. For a country pre-capitalist.
A revolution and revoutionary movement with most of its history pre WWII. Discussion of Kruschevite and Post Kruschevite politics is minimal to that devoted to previous events.
Is'nt it about time the Left moved in and/or looked in different directions.
dennisr
the acceptable face
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
The irony of you banging on about the self same subject is lost on you isn't it?
I feel that it is something to be addressed.
As far as the SP goes, did'nt they drop Democratic Centralism for a while in favour of 'Democratic Unity'? Why was that; the reason? Was their any difference in organisational structure?
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Cant believe we've got this far without a nice picture of a tank!
What is it going into Chechnya?
some groups on the left still consider Russia to be 'socialist' or have elements of socialism within it: Workers Fight for example.
What do you think, Putin following the example of Bolshervism.
What relation did the KGB have to USSR
What is it going into Chechnya?
It's rushing to the aid of brave comrades-in-arms obviously.
dennisr
the acceptable face
its a peoples tank - clearly...
dennisr
the acceptable face
keep addressing, don't let me stop you
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
All the intellectuals out today. Is it visiting day?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Cant believe we've got this far without a nice picture of a tank!
Not just a tank but the tank.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Why should socialism help the masses.Its there to help the elite and nothing else.
Russia achieved this it helped its inner circle and fucked the rest.
Do you really think the left is united?
Its made up of little left and anti fascist tribal groups.The most important thing is their own tribal group not the movement.Yes I am regretting the moment I ever got into politics in the 80's.
Russia achieved this it helped its inner circle and fucked the rest.
Do you really think the left is united?
Its made up of little left and anti fascist tribal groups.The most important thing is their own tribal group not the movement.Yes I am regretting the moment I ever got into politics in the 80's.
That has certainly been mine and many others experience.
Yup. As elsewhere.
which is why they will never (thankfully) gain any sort of power. The sad fact is I've encountered more intolerant fuckwits on the 'left' than on the right but that may be my own personal experience and others may have experienced different.
Many of us do. It didn't change anything. I would have been better off looking after myself.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Handy.
I have come to realise that it doesn't matter one iota what people call it. It was a society where the entire economy was in the hands of the state, and the state was in the hands of a bureaucratic clique (Communist Party leadership).
I couldn't care less what you want to call it.
I couldn't care less what you want to call it.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
There's always the question of Euro-Communism.
Not just a tank but the tank.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Can't really work out the position of the CPB.
Apparently Euro Communist; many members go on about Kruschevite Revisionism & how the secretly celebrate Stalin's Birthday.
Whats the line for this lot?
dennisr
the acceptable face
28 years in 'politics' and this is the level of understanding? - ever considered joining one of the main parties - they are looking for bright sparks like you
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
heroes and villains
How they see this model going wrong or right may have some say in the way they operate politics today.
One of the main problems is a weakness in their perception of history, seeing it in a game of heroes and villains, metaphysically, without understanding dialectical processes.
It could possibly reflect on how many groups on the left put politics into practice, taking that many base themselves on a bolshervik model, and/or reaction from it.
How they see this model going wrong or right may have some say in the way they operate politics today.
One of the main problems is a weakness in their perception of history, seeing it in a game of heroes and villains, metaphysically, without understanding dialectical processes.
dennisr
the acceptable face
Nigel the philisopher
...next thread - Nigel introduces an understanding of the dialectical processes. Urban75 awaits with baited breath
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Take the thread on here of SWP involvement in Climate Change Camp: Small group of 'revolutionaries' infiltrating a movement to take it over for the better good(sic)
SP's tactics surrounding the CNWP, putting the cart before the horse: turning up at struggles trying to people & activists to support them, rather than a movement to support people in struggle. Hypothetically when/if this initiative does take place, SP acting like an entrist faction within.
SP's tactics surrounding the CNWP, putting the cart before the horse: turning up at struggles trying to people & activists to support them, rather than a movement to support people in struggle. Hypothetically when/if this initiative does take place, SP acting like an entrist faction within.
Did it really matter in the long run that the SP, the SWP, Workers Power, the AWL and other Trotskyist groups had differing interpretations on what the Soviet Union was?
It mattered because it meant some 'supported' the Soviet Union, however criticially, and some didn't. So what? What 'support' did these groups actually give?
Each group have different tactics. But they don't flow from their analysis of the former Soviet Union.
dennisr
the acceptable face
philosopher and 'activist' - tell me Nigel, why have so many groups pushed you away gently? why did the ex-AFA lot you hung around asking lots of questions about in the ----- area avoid you like the plague and warn other groups about you?
I clearly isn't because of your 'insight'
are you a grass/spy or simply an idiot?
I'm guessing idiot?
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