what the BNP actually say on immigration ..

[durruti02]

The largest drive to cut workers living standards happened under a Labour government led by Callaghan and Healy with orders from the IMF. Now the I in IMF doesn't stand for immigration.

??? are you sure ?? did you live thru the early 8ts??

why do you dispute the idea that scarcity of labour drives up wages and abundance of labour pushes down wages?

i have always agreed that generally a low wage economy will boost profits and even wages generally .. but specifically NOT at the bottem end .. as people have stated over and over on here .. building,cleaning, general manual work .. these occupations have seen clear reductions OR falling back compared to other jobs ..

 

[durruti02]

. Are you really so blind that you dont see that your pseudo-leftist 'concern' about immigration only strengthens the hands of those who want such controls?

aah i missed that .. this is a very good point .. i totally undertand your worry .. the trouble is that the reactionary point of view in the real world is SOOOOO much in the ascendancy that what i say or do will not increase it by one iota ..

and what i propose will do the opposite .. we need to inject some leftwing/class analysis into the debate .. maybe then we can undercut the right wing hegemony of the subject .. capisce?

what it needs though IS an honest open classsist response .. THAT is what is missing

your and the SWs fear of this debate or parroting the old anti racist meanongless bollx is like hiding your heads in the sand .. you have got to come to terms with it

 

[TonkaToy]

rubbish ... i can guarantee that 95% are tory the remainder in the UKIP or BNP .. of course when i say tory i mean new labour scum as well .. tbh all employers anyone who makes money from anothers sweat is scum to me

find me a left winger who employers cheap forign labour .. and yes i do NOT count trendys employing nannies and poles at cut price .. all scum to me mate

hypocrites .. you have no idea what modern conservatism is .. it is anti national anti tradition pro free trade and pro immigration ( er as is the new labour lot too ) if you want and are not overtly racist then i guess you are more UKIP than tory

Mate, you're making it all up as you go along.

 

[durruti02]

Mate, you're making it all up as you go along.

seriously?? so who are all the guys who own the building companies? all the 'small businessmen' struggling heroically against red tape and bureaucracy while complaining about all the foreigners causing crime while driving their bms and mercs to the golf course while their polish workers work for nice low wages .. knock me down with a feather but i could have sworn that these guys were almost ALL TORIES .. please put me right if i am wrong hey???

p.s. i accept that there is a new breed of m/c bureaucrat is is obsessed with bringing in cheap labour to whatever part of the welfare state they are parasites on .. currently they are New Labour but as i said before they are peas in a pod with tories as far as i can see ..

 

[audiotech]

??? are you sure ?? did you live thru the early 8ts??

Just - I was on the dole.

why do you dispute the idea that scarcity of labour drives up wages and abundance of labour pushes down wages?

Your economics for beginners course will fill you in later no doubt. I can't be arsed.

i have always agreed that generally a low wage economy will boost profits and even wages generally .. but specifically NOT at the bottem end .. as people have stated over and over on here .. building,cleaning, general manual work .. these occupations have seen clear reductions OR falling back compared to other jobs ..

You agree drut, but don't explain how?

 

[durruti02]

Your economics for beginners course will fill you in later no doubt. I can't be arsed.

whatever .. really it is basic leftism too .. but old school .. you seem to have moved on from TUs and all that grimey stuff


You agree drut, but don't explain how?

??? que .?? . as by economics for SW econmics class taught me ( and i've mentionned many times on here b4)

it is thatcherism .. lower costs by getting rid of red tape/ lower wages / restrictive practices/ closed shop etc etc etc and you will get a boost in production and profits .. this feeds thru to higher GNP and even wages at many levels BUT almost always not at the base ..

 

[audiotech]

??? que .?? . as by economics for SW econmics class taught me ( and i've mentionned many times on here b4)

it is thatcherism .. lower costs by getting rid of red tape/ lower wages / restrictive practices/ closed shop etc etc etc and you will get a boost in production and profits .. this feeds thru to higher GNP and even wages at many levels BUT almost always not at the base ..

Thatcherism was an attempt to claw back from workers some of the economic gains that the long period of high employment had brought.

Interestingly, in the UK saw this phenomenon.

 

[durruti02]

Thatcherism was an attempt to claw back from workers some of the economic gains that the long period of high employment had brought.

yep i think there was personal hatred in there of the w/c and their small privilages .. tea breaks etc etc

but this was not the fundamental surely mate???? surely that was to restore profitablity to business by getting rid of restrictive practices and lowering wages and staffing levels??? in that she/they suceeded .. for a time till labour scarcity drove wages back up again .. and EU expansion is driving them down again ..

 

[belboid]

if EU expansion was ALL about driving down wages, how come the large majority of countries havent allowed their workers to migrate? And (unless you think Blair was simply lying, not impossible of course) how come the UK only predicted 13,00o coming over here? Doesnt add up.

 

[durruti02]

if EU expansion was ALL about driving down wages, how come the large majority of countries havent allowed their workers to migrate? And (unless you think Blair was simply lying, not impossible of course) how come the UK only predicted 13,00o coming over here? Doesnt add up.

thank you thank you thank you!!!!! because not ALL countries are as fucking neo liberal as our own .. .. i can go home now ..

and yes of course Blair lied FFS mate ..

it DOES ADD UP doesn't it .. .. they are scum mate .. real scum .. and one day you and me together will get them ..

 

[belboid]

so blair (who was the most pro expansin I grant you) pushed it through all on his own despite the majority of countries disagreeing??

And, whilst I'm sure there was some deliberate under-estimation, not to the extent of being under by more than 4000%!! It's been a political disaster for him & Labour as would have been easilly predicatable.

No, it doesn't add up.

Tho hopefully, yes, me and you will get them - you'll just be a step behind me is all

 

[audiotech]

yep i think there was personal hatred in there of the w/c and their small privilages .. tea breaks etc etc

but this was not the fundamental surely mate???? surely that was to restore profitablity to business by getting rid of restrictive practices and lowering wages and staffing levels??? in that she/they suceeded .. for a time till labour scarcity drove wages back up again .. and EU expansion is driving them down again ..

It wasn't personal, it was an ideological battle against the Keynesian left. Monetarism was the economic theory used to implement radical, right-wing economic change. The people implementing this change understood exactly what the social consequences of that change would be and that is why the state, particularly the police, was bolstered to deal with the expected hostility from working class organisations. It was the working class afterall who were to bear the brunt of this economic break with the post-war political consensus.

 

[TonkaToy]

seriously?? so who are all the guys who own the building companies? all the 'small businessmen' struggling heroically against red tape and bureaucracy while complaining about all the foreigners causing crime while driving their bms and mercs to the golf course while their polish workers work for nice low wages .. knock me down with a feather but i could have sworn that these guys were almost ALL TORIES .. please put me right if i am wrong hey???

p.s. i accept that there is a new breed of m/c bureaucrat is is obsessed with bringing in cheap labour to whatever part of the welfare state they are parasites on .. currently they are New Labour but as i said before they are peas in a pod with tories as far as i can see ..

But there are loads of differences between Tories and the New Labour crowd, with loads of people criss-crossing the divide on agreement or disagreement with certain policies.

Just because you see New Labour as too right wing for your liking, it doesn't mean that every Tory out there can't wait to fuck up the working class masses.

You're argument is as silly as the argument being put forward, that it's very telling that the racists don't want immigration.

I'm quite surprised that you try to make an implication about the those who exploit foreign workers, especially when you know how rotten it is when someone labels you a racist.

If a Tory naturally exploits workers, then you are naturally racist.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

So what? Is there a point you are trying to make?

Are you trying to blame English people for that?

Yes you tory english cunts occupy my country and when you feel like it lose your stiff upper lip and kill people without any consideration to those manners you waffle on about.

 

[howardsenter]

p.s. i accept that there is a new breed of m/c bureaucrat is is obsessed with bringing in cheap labour to whatever part of the welfare state they are parasites on .. currently they are New Labour but as i said before they are peas in a pod with tories as far as i can see ..

That is very true - I would also draw your attention towards one John Lister who is, iirc a NHS bureacrat and a long standing memberof the International Socialist Group. It just so happens that the ISG favours open borders which would as a matter of course encourage large scale economc migration. As our transatlantic cousins might say - 'do the math'.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

*reads back over past posts*

*does math*

*wonders how this got missed the first time*

 

[TonkaToy]

Yes you tory english cunts occupy my country and when you feel like it lose your stiff upper lip and kill people without any consideration to those manners you waffle on about.

My stiff upper English Tory lips allow me not to lower myself to your level.

Please also keep your racism to yourself. Racism is not welcome around here.

 

[treelover]

ah, now it makes sense, this is the John Lister of Keep Our NHS Public, London
Health Emergency, its weird but it does seem you have to be a believer to continually campaign for many years without rest.

That is very true - I would also draw your attention towards one John Lister who is, iirc a NHS bureacrat and a long standing memberof the International Socialist Group.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

My stiff upper English Tory lips allow me not to lower myself to your level.

Please also keep your racism to yourself. Racism is not welcome around here.

You really haven't got two brain cells to rub together have you tory boy? We had a tory like you at the LSE, even the other Tories were embarassed by him.

 

[The Black Hand]

It wasn't personal, it was an ideological battle against the Keynesian left. Monetarism was the economic theory used to implement radical, right-wing economic change. The people implementing this change understood exactly what the social consequences of that change would be and that is why the state, particularly the police, was bolstered to deal with the expected hostility from working class organisations. It was the working class afterall who were to bear the brunt of this economic break with the post-war political consensus.

Generally I agree here, but there is lots more to be said...

It was the Labour Govt who started to implement the end of the social contract period (at the behest of the IMF) in 1976. However, worldwide economic change has its origins as far back as 1968, when American capital started to realise that the welfare state was given the working class too much political power (See Parenti - "Lockdown America", published by Verso)...