What stupid shit has Trump done today?

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by Yossarian, May 1, 2017.

  1. NoXion

    NoXion It's been 600 years...

    People can choose their politics, it's perfectly valid to criticise them on that basis. Unlike class or skin colour.
     
    maomao and mather like this.
  2. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Ok, I get that. But how to build bridges? Surely painting all liberals/dems etc as being of the same mindset is counter productive?

    The US has a fascinating history with socialism, civil and workers rights all of which have been subject to setbacks and demonisation. As a result, the very idea of socialism is a dirty word to much of the electorate. How to remedy this? Will it take the Trump administration's mistakes to foment some kind of rebellion?

    Or worse still, will the Trump administration see a further slide to the far right?
     
  3. mather

    mather Well-Known Member

    Why should we build bridges? If anything the socialist-liberal divide is long overdue. I'd rather people actually stand by their politics rather than make the case for some vague unity between to political traditions that objectively speaking, have nothing in common. If the result of this division is a socialist politics that returns to it's working class origins and becomes a mass movement that gives workers their own voice again, then that can only be good.
     
  4. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    So there's only room for one way of thinking. Each respective camp sticks to their guns. No crossover, no compromise, no shared ground. It's my way or the highway?

    That's pretty depressing.
     
    existentialist and hipipol like this.
  5. mather

    mather Well-Known Member

    What is so good about compromise if it entails a total abandonment of your ideals and principles and worse, a complete disconnect from the very people you claim to be in politics for?

    And yes, sometimes in politics, there are two sides and you have to take one. Also, depending on the particular issue, compromise isn't necessarily the nice sounding term you think it is. I mean, I'm glad President Lincoln was stubborn and uncompromising in his stance towards the Confederacy.
     
    Sunset Tree, YouSir, Omaplata and 2 others like this.
  6. NoXion

    NoXion It's been 600 years...

    When I talk about building bridges, I'm talking about intra-class solidarity that cuts across the divisions of the working class promulgated by the neoliberal identity politics types. I don't think there is much scope for bridge-building between socialists and liberals.
     
    seventh bullet likes this.
  7. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    It's got to be plainly said that people aren't on the same side.
     
  8. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    So build bridges with Trump then.
     
  9. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    How does this work in the US, regarding bringing about change? How can solidarity be achieved with all the divisions there?

    Socialism is only a tiny part of US culture, how can it be made attractive to the majority?
     
  10. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    But if you only are in politics for one group of people, what happens to the rest who are excluded?

    (I'm glad Republican Abe Lincoln was stubborn,too!)
     
  11. NoXion

    NoXion It's been 600 years...

    The one group of people that I am "in politics" for is the working class, the proletariat, whatever you want to call it... it is the one group of people in society responsible for creating anything of any real worth in today's society. Whether that be the people working at the coalface in some kind of employment, the unemployed who are treated as a "reserve army" of pliable labour-in-potential as well as a warning to those in steady and well-compensated employment, or the people working to raise the next generation of workers, it is a category that crosses national and ethnic boundaries.
     
  12. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Which is great. But neither Trump nor Clinton represent that vast section of society. How can change be brought about to ensure they are represented, do you think?
     
  13. NoXion

    NoXion It's been 600 years...

    I'd prefer class power over representation. That means the development of organisational structures that would be independent of bourgeois political parties. The best exemplar of this in the US at the moment would be the Democratic Socialists of America.
     
    krtek a houby likes this.
  14. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Cheers for that. Have bookmarked it. Interesting to see the inclusion of religious socialism, there. I expect that's a nod to the religious culture of the US and a counter to those who may cry "godless commies" and other such nonsense!

    This organisation and Redneck Revolt are still below the radar for many Americans. How can their visibility be improved on, withouth the inevitable onslaught of pro-conservative/liberal demonisation, though. That would be my worry.
     
  15. teqniq

    teqniq DisMembered

    krtek a houby likes this.
  16. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    So they can defend minorities - not quite getting it are they.
     
    NoXion and seventh bullet like this.
  17. Supine

    Supine Rough Like Badger

    What a load of tosh! You're obviously blinkered by your thoughts on class if you think this.
     
  18. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    Maybe you're narrow in your understanding of just how big the working class is and who is in it.
     
  19. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Is the working class being served in the US, do you think?
     
  20. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    Huh?
     
    J Ed likes this.
  21. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Do you think the working class is being served well in the US?
     
  22. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    I don't understand the question, nor do I think your recent posts have been sincere given they contradict the majority of your posts here in p+p for years. I don't believe there has been a sudden turnaround or that you have forgotten what has been explained to you on subjects such as these umpteen times.
     
    redsquirrel likes this.
  23. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    This is a thread about what stupid shit Trump has done today.

    Now, you can either chose to answer the question or bring cross beef into it. I realise you thrive on the latter but I'd be generally interested in whether or nnot you think the working class in America is being looked after or not. Right now. Not under a Dem administration and not under a fantasy Clinton administration.
     
  24. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    I still don't understand the question.
     
  25. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Are the working class getting a fair deal in the US today, do you think? Under the current administration?
     
  26. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    The US working class and its organisations, as in formally recognised labour movement, social democratic representation in bourgeois party politics, and the much more outside of these, has been attacked relentlessly for decades. This is utterly banal.

    But it's just an identity, class, isn't it?

    Why the sudden concern? As well as being interested in grass-roots orgs with politics shared by posters on here, and which you've whinged about for years?
     
    SpackleFrog likes this.
  27. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    So, it's not being served under the current admin.

    Why? Why did the people vote for billionaire charlatan Trump. Why aren't the grassroots parties in a better place, do you think?

    The remainder of your post is a mix of falsehoods, misirepresentation, cross-thread beef and baiting and isn't worthy of a reply.
     
  28. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    There are just a lot of really thick racist people around.

    I just don't believe in your sincerity at all. Just leading questions to more of the same old self-orbiting, passive-aggressive silliness.
     
    SpackleFrog likes this.
  29. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Ah, you can't explain it. Fair enough, the beef is much more important to you.
     
  30. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    I just don't believe you.
     

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