what society is more racist??

[kyser_soze]

I guess that if you live somewhere they tell you don't work and you'll be arrested is an nicentive...or the idea of working for yourself in fact...altho there are loads of reasons people have left EE...

 

[TAE]

what society is more racist??

The one that only gives you two ridiculous options in polls.

 

[TAE]

I would vote for a third option: Support workers/union movements around the world, so that other countries also have good income locally. Then everyone can move around as they wish without being exploited.

 

[durruti02]

The one that only gives you two ridiculous options in polls.

so give us more ..

 

[nino_savatte]

dear nino and lock and ligth ..

so what are your opinions on the OP?

p.s. i have started a thread nino about what is neo liberalism

Ah, trying to play the voice of authority and moral rectitude - again.

 

[durruti02]

I would vote for a third option: Support workers/union movements around the world, so that other countries also have good income locally. Then everyone can move around as they wish without being exploited.

yupp i would vote for that .. but is does not fit the thread title for an option does it .. and imho surely the first option encompasses what you support?? .. it does to my mind!

 

[durruti02]

Ah, trying to play the voice of authority and moral rectitude - again.

er no .. as the OPer i asked what your opinion was on it! simple really! do you have one on the OP? i notice you did not vote yet? what way are you swaying?

 

[TAE]

so give us more ..

Post #63.

 

[nino_savatte]

er no .. as the OPer i asked what your opinion was on it! simple really! do you have one on the OP? i notice you did not vote yet? what way are you swaying?

What is there to vote on? This just another exercise in ego-stroking for you. "Look how many people voted! I am so popular"!

Nice choice of options - typically binarist (you know: black/white; left/right; up/down). Your choice of options is deliberately constructed around your obsession with immigration. It completely ignores racism in order to focus its attack on immigrants.

 

[Brainaddict]

why do the left not protest that all the dirty work in our society is now done by 'foreigners', 'blacks' and 'slavs'????? ( p.s. use of racial words is designed to show how sick this is )

.. neo liberal migration ..suppotted by the liberal left .. has helped create a MORE racist society

Yeah, clearly we should make all them foreigners stay at home where their exploitation would be less visible.

Where do you find such boundless reserves of energy for being so deliberately dense? You appear to have had one political thought in your life and by god you're going to stick to it, no matter what arguments are advanced against it - in fact argument against the idea merely confirms that the sinister liberal/left consensus is trying to silence your radical thought. Have you ever wondered if you're the messiah?

 

[TAE]

yupp i would vote for that .. but is does not fit the thread title for an option does it .. and imho surely the first option encompasses what you support?? .. it does to my mind!

The first option does not mention people moving around as they wish.

"Good workers rights everywhere so that workers can live where they wish."

 

[tarannau]

Where do you find such boundless reserves of energy for being so deliberately dense? You appear to have had one political thought in your life and by god you're going to stick to it, no matter what arguments are advanced against it - in fact argument against the idea merely confirms that the sinister liberal/left consensus is trying to silence your radical thought. Have you ever wondered if you're the messiah?

Applauds.

I love this idea ths somehow I'm a member of the left-establishment, or som kind of neoliberal rep. Instead of being just another 2nd generation immigrant who works hard for a living and is sick and tired of seeing delusional small-minded twazzocks blaming folks like my parents for the UK workforce's failings. Clearly they were just willing patsies, exploited by the conspiratorial bosses, or something.

 

[durruti02]

The first option does not mention people moving around as they wish.

"Good workers rights everywhere so that workers can live where they wish."

thats all very well in theory isn't it .. but what if the boss wantst ( as at gate gourmet and irish ferries) to bring in workers who will do the job cheaper than you? what happens when we have millions out of work including 1.3. million NEETS?? what happens when it si cheaper to import labour than train up our kids?? does is this not relevent??

tbh i think it is dishonest to say you/we believe in total freedom of movment .. when we have parties we are generally exclusive or control access, at home we control access .. why do you deny w/c people the right to control where the live and work ??

but any way the point of the OP was .. is it racist the way neo liberalism uses migrants .. what do you think of that?

 

[nino_savatte]

If you're so fucking concerned about neo-liberalism, then challenge the system, not its victims.

Have you ever been on an anti-globalisation march/rally, durutti?

 

[tarannau]

but any way the point of the OP was .. is it racist the way neo liberalism uses migrants .. what do you think of that?

Stop being a patronsising muppet. Do you think the majority of migrants are 'used' by neoliberals, or are they willling participants trying to better themselves?

 

[kyser_soze]

Hmmm, consider the situation...

My name is Lecv, I live in a small town of about 15,000 people in semi-rural Poland. There are no jobs here, in fact there is virtually nothing here whatsoever. Since Poland joined the EU I have the chance to go and find work in a market of nearly 400mn people, earn some money, maybe start my own business and then maybe return home, maybe stay where I've moved to. Or I could stay here because some people have told me I'm a willing dupe of capitalism and I'm causing jobs to be lost in the UK, even tho the kinds of jobs my friends and I do - carpentry, plumbing, plastering - are all skills he UK is desprately short of due to an education system that turns it's nose up at practical vocations, and a sedentary local population.

 

[tarannau]

He wouldn't come here unless the neoliberal scum bosses enticed him though, would he now Kyser?

 

[kyser_soze]

Well no, obviously not. Indeed, I'd argue that many of them travel the Polish countryside in press gangs.

 

[Fruitloop]

To be honest why 'the left', - whoever is actually referred to by that now rather threadbare term - should provide the w/c with answers to the problems of neo-liberal capitalism other than the obvious one, i.e. to take on the mantle of real self-governance as quickly as possible, completely escapes me. In fact to pretend that there exist other, easier answers is perhaps to do them the greater disservice.

 

[kyser_soze]

To be honest why 'the left', - whoever is actually referred to by that now rather threadbare term - should provide the w/c with answers to the problems of neo-liberal capitalism other than the obvious one, i.e. to take on the mantle of real self-governance as quickly as possible, completely escapes me. In fact to pretend that there exist other, easier answers is perhaps to do them the greater disservice.

Are we talking Marxist w/c or social w/c here?

I mean come on - as a nation we can't even take on the mantle of eating healthily and getting a bit of excercise every now and again, let alone something as complex as self-governance...in fact I'll go one better than that, IME only about 20% of drivers know to position their cars nearside/nearside when making a right turn on crossroads...

 

[durruti02]

Yeah, clearly we should make all them foreigners stay at home where their exploitation would be less visible.

Where do you find such boundless reserves of energy for being so deliberately dense? You appear to have had one political thought in your life and by god you're going to stick to it, no matter what arguments are advanced against it - in fact argument against the idea merely confirms that the sinister liberal/left consensus is trying to silence your radical thought. Have you ever wondered if you're the messiah?

so everything in society is grand? you are happy to see millions of unemployed and africans and poles sweeping the streets? whatever

 

[TAE]

thats all very well in theory isn't it .. but what if the boss wantst ( as at gate gourmet and irish ferries) to bring in workers who will do the job cheaper than you?

I don't see that as an immigration issue at all. What if the boss moves his company to India?

 

[durruti02]

Applauds.

I love this idea ths somehow I'm a member of the left-establishment, or som kind of neoliberal rep. Instead of being just another 2nd generation immigrant who works hard for a living and is sick and tired of seeing delusional small-minded twazzocks blaming folks like my parents for the UK workforce's failings. Clearly they were just willing patsies, exploited by the conspiratorial bosses, or something.

don't be so daft .. as i said 2u on the other thread if you bothered to read what i say you will not see me blaming migrants for anything .. my finger is pointed firmly at the system ..

so you see NO problems with the current economic system and how it uses immigration or with miragtion at all?

 

[kyser_soze]

you are happy to see millions of unemployed and africans and poles sweeping the streets?

Surely if they're sweeping the streets they're employed?

 

[Fruitloop]

Are we talking Marxist w/c or social w/c here?

I mean come on - as a nation we can't even take on the mantle of eating healthily and getting a bit of excercise every now and again, let alone something as complex as self-governance...in fact I'll go one better than that, IME only about 20% of drivers know to position their cars nearside/nearside when making a right turn on crossroads...

Both of those things are the fault of 'the Left' to about the same degree as durruti's various complaints, as far as I can see.

 

[TAE]

why do you deny w/c people the right to control where the live and work ??

You've lost me.

but any way the point of the OP was .. is it racist the way neo liberalism uses migrants .. what do you think of that?

I don't think the problem is racism.

 

[durruti02]

If you're so fucking concerned about neo-liberalism, then challenge the system, not its victims.

Have you ever been on an anti-globalisation march/rally, durutti?

you really are thick arn' you nino? sorry to say put the whole point of my posting is to work out better ways of challenging capitalism .. like is say if you haven't worked that out by now

but then you are not an activist so you wouldn't understand

 

[Fruitloop]

don't be so daft .. as i said 2u on the other thread if you bothered to read what i say you will not see me blaming migrants for anything .. my finger is pointed firmly at the system ..

so you see NO problems with the current economic system and how it uses immigration or with miragtion at all?

I see a problem with the 'economic system' as a whole, in fact with the idea of there being an 'economic system' rather than simply a social order in the first place if you want to be pedantic about it.

 

[kyser_soze]

So durruti, have you been out among 'the people' - immigrant groups for example - telling them to demand equal wages? Many tours to EE or Africa to tell the people there 'Don't come to Britain, you're being oppressed and used by international capitalism to drive down the wages of British workers and take their jobs!', or indeed, going out on a global tour of class-consciousness raising, pointing out that whatever their local culture, the work of a dead, white man is what they should listen to?

 

[durruti02]

You've lost me.


I don't think the problem is racism.

1) if you say to people you can not challenge how the bosses use immigration you are silencing them on a key way of how the bosses are operating

and again if you say a migrant ( or student) has as much right to a job as someone who HAS that job ( or their children) again you are denying them rights

we can not win rights for all the world till we have power over our lives here ..

3) actually i don't either .. ithink neo liberalism is colour blind .. but the OP is looking at th e consq equences of that sytem and i do indeed think it si racist that we have so much of our dirty work done by africans and poles