What really matters?

[danny la rouge]

Mortality rates? So it’s all about the sanctity of life then. Please let it not all be about veganism. Please.

Once again: eh?

I refer to the fact that in working class communities such as Glasgow's Calton, life expectancy is 54. (See: here). In nearby, middle class Milngavie, life expectancy is 87.

Just one of many statistics showing that class matters; it is a matter of life or death.

 

[LLETSA]

It's a serious question. Are you brave enough to admit you’re caught up in some conflict of arbitrary values?

Why, is it brave pissing about on here all day? Maybe it is for you, but as I said, the latterday ubermensch is a poor specimen.

So you've got an obsession with what you see as a leftie obsession with values, but you've been chasing the same handful of people around the internet and boring us all to tears with it for years now without actually saying anything.

Why not do something different for a change and outline the brave new world of injustice, unbridled hedonism and the wearing of underpants outside the trousers? Anything to break the tedium. Christ.

 

[xes]

I don't know, when was the last time you tried importing food and fuel? Besides, We don't "need" half the things we'd rather have around. It's not as if we're obliged to eject everything we don't "need", it's not as if we're living in a religious order.

I think the fact we don't "need" half the things we're told we do need, is telling of how much we don't need the goverment anymore. We wouldn't need to import things, if we became self sustainable and actually helped eachother out. We wouldn't need big business at all.

I dream of such times, though i know it'll probably never happen, short of a cataclismic event.

 

[Carousel]

stop projecting your own inability to feel that anything matters onto others.

I’m doing nothing of the sort, I fully accept you feel. And indeed, accept my own inability to feel. However, it does rather reduce your “politics” to an emotional predilection. This wouldn’t be a problem other than the simple fact we hallucinate our values are in some way objectively correct. We’re sanctimonious. So when we ask, why are we so insignificant or why is everyone so cruel or whatever, the only thing stopping us from answering the question is our character armour. Our inability to accept our take on the world is arbitrary, emotional and marginalised.

Why, is it brave pissing about on here all day?

You see? LLETSA is a classic case. Look at the pain he expresses just thinking about why he believes what he believes. Inner conflict. He finds his own morality humiliating.

 

[LLETSA]

You see? LLETSA is a classic case. Look at the pain he expresses just thinking about why he believes what he believes. Inner conflict. He finds his own morality humiliating.

I don't. I do feel a bit embarrassed on your behalf though, you juvenile, pseudo-intellectual bore.

The biggest drawback of the internet is the scope it gives for the deluded to launch projects that don't know they lack the intellectual capacity for.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I’m doing nothing of the sort, I fully accept you feel. And indeed, accept my own inability to feel. However, it does rather reduce your “politics” to an emotional predilection. This wouldn’t be a problem other than the simple fact we hallucinate our values are in some way objectively correct. We’re sanctimonious. So when we ask, why are we so insignificant or why is everyone so cruel or whatever, the only thing stopping us from answering the question is our character armour. Our inability to accept our take on the world is arbitrary, emotional and marginalised.

This is projecting. 'we hallucinate our values are in some way objectively correct'? Don't try to talk for me, sunshine. Really. Don't.

 

[Carousel]

I refer to the fact that in working class communities such as Glasgow's Calton, life expectancy is 54. (See: here). In nearby, middle class Milngavie, life expectancy is 87.

Just one of many statistics showing that class matters; it is a matter of life or death.

Yeah yeah. And their lives only matter as long they meet your criteria of “innocence”. Find anything on them, racists, paedos, privileged background, “exploitative” business owner, whatever, and their lives mean as little to you as they do to me. Face it Danny, it’s an arbitrary matter of justice, an emotional aversion to inequality. A question of your take on right and wrong, good and evil, representing some kind of transcendental truth.

'we hallucinate our values are in some way objectively correct'? Don't try to talk for me, sunshine. Really. Don't.

So your values aren't objectively correct?

 

[revol68]

What may I ask is wrong with an emotional disgust at inequality, selling yourself and a world that revolves around the petty morality of the account book? Also why would such disgust have to represent some transcendental truth, why would such disgust not be historically contingent, based as it is on the gap between what is and what could be?

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah yeah. And their lives only matter as long they meet your criteria of “innocence”.

Tell you what, since you have decided my opinion without hearing it, you can have the conversation by yourself. It'll save you waiting for my responses.

 

[ViolentPanda]

IThis wouldn’t be a problem other than the simple fact we hallucinate our values are in some way objectively correct. We’re sanctimonious.

Even someone who's hallucinating would be well aware that values are subjective, that's partly why they're values rather than facts.

 

[revol68]

Tell you what, since you have decided my opinion without hearing it, you can have the conversation by yourself. It'll save you waiting for my responses.

Christ, grow a pair instead of floucing, it's only the internet and it's hardly like he's some intellectual powerhouse.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tell you what, since you have decided my opinion without hearing it, you can have the conversation by yourself. It'll save you waiting for my responses.

There's only really one response to the OP, anyway:

"Nothing really matters, anyone can see"

 

[danny la rouge]

Christ, grow a pair instead of floucing, it's only the internet and it's hardly like he's some intellectual powerhouse.

Fuck off.

 

[Carousel]

Christ, grow a pair instead of floucing, it's only the internet and it's hardly like he's some intellectual powerhouse.

Like I say Rev, character armour pure and simple. They can't bring themselves to admit it’s really a matter of emotional indignation. Hats off to you for doing just that.

 

[danny la rouge]

Like I say Rev, character armour pure and simple. They can't bring themselves to admit it’s really a matter of emotional indignation.

Who can't bring themselves to admit what? I'm really struggling to see what you think is so important here.

 

[revol68]

Fuck off.

cry me a river for fuck sake. You claim to be in favour of revolution but have a hissy fit if someone is rude to you online.

 

[danny la rouge]

What are you on about, revol?

 

[revol68]

Like I say Rev, character armour pure and simple. They can't bring themselves to admit it’s really a matter of emotional indignation. Hats off to you for doing just that.

Of course it is a matter of emotional indignation, it's also a matter of intellectual indignation, the two things aren't mutually exclusive, infact they are pretty much entwined.

 

[LLETSA]

Like I say Rev, character armour pure and simple. They can't bring themselves to admit it’s really a matter of emotional indignation. Hats off to you for doing just that.

Even if you were right and it is a matter of emotional indignation, why would this matter? More interestingly, why does it matter to you? Particularly when you constantly claim that nothing matters? (Radical that. Daring even.)

Regarding the title of the thread, why don't you tell us what you see the important issues as being instead of trying to embroil lefties in the same old non-discussion (even if this was exactly your intention?)

 

[revol68]

What are you on about, revol?

it's hardly cryptic, i'm talking about you're hissy fit in response to carousel.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Of course it is a matter of emotional indignation, it's also a matter of intellectual indignation, the two things aren't mutually exclusive, infact they are pretty much entwined.

Yep.

Carousel, you haven't revealed any great secret to anyone by telling us that our emotional response to the world shapes our ideas.

 

[Carousel]

In acknowledging that a political ideology is a matter of moral indignation, one accounts for its marginalised character.

why would such disgust not be historically contingent, based as it is on the gap between what is and what could be?

For disgust to be historically contingent it must positively demonstrate itself as such, merely showing the unprovability of it’s non-existence is not enough.

 

[LLETSA]

In acknowledging that a political ideology is a matter of moral indignation, one accounts for its marginalised character.

For disgust to be historically contingent it must positively demonstrate itself as such, merely demonstrating the unprovability of it’s non-existence is not enough.

This is what I mean about pseudo-intellectualism.

Wordy nonsense.

 

[danny la rouge]

it's hardly cryptic, i'm talking about you're hissy fit in response to carousel.

"Hissy fit"?

I'm just bored with trying to make sense of the point of the line of "argument".

 

[Carousel]

Wordy nonsense.

I'm just bored

Character armour.

 

[danny la rouge]

Character armour.

What does this mean? And where does the accusation lead? And will I be interested?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

In acknowledging that a political ideology is a matter of moral indignation, one accounts for its marginalised character.

Yet this isn't anything anyone has done.

Political ideology is not reducible in the way you want it to be.

 

[JimW]

Reich's whole notion of character armour smacks of being just his self-justificatory response to the world of squares who didn't suffer from the same obsessions. Utter a variety of crank bollocks then conclude that the only possible reason people think you're tapped is they haven't achieved your brimful level of orgone potency. Should never have killed him for it, but what a crock of shite.

 

[revol68]

For disgust to be historically contingent it must positively demonstrate itself as such, merely showing the unprovability of it’s non-existence is not enough.

tell me how disgust at seeing the best days of your life thrown away in wage labour could not be historically contingent? or where there 12th century peasants sitting around bemoaning taylorism?

 

[LLETSA]

"Hissy fit"?

I'm just bored with trying to make sense of the point of the line of "argument".

The point is something like this: Carousel was in Class War. Carousel left Class War not because he had the insight to recognise it couldn't possibly go anywhere, but because he felt personally let down by its inevitable lack of progress.

After a bit of a rethink he got on the career ladder which will one day take him to the dizzy heights of local authority middle management and started reading Nietzsche. Although this gave him some compensatory illusions and a whole new store of masturbation fantasies, he never forgot or forgave the way his former comrades let him down, so he decided to waste their time, and that of anybody else daft enough to listen by embroiling them all in a never-ending non-debate on the internet.