what no "pitifully small swc demo" thread?

[tobyjug]

has that one been already?

Last week apparently, they were supposed to disrupt the aprés DESI pissup on Thursday night.

 

[Pickman's model]

Last week apparently, they were supposed to disrupt the aprés DESI pissup on Thursday night.

dsei

 

[districtline]

Sure, I know a couple of people that would never guess in a million years were Muslim...PM I think you've really got to actually spend some time with Muslims because you're views on them seem to be formed by distant (skewered) observation rather than direct experience of them as people.

skewered observation? which off the ones pm mentioned are probably moslems?

well, i discounted people with beer cans, spotty white people selling social worker, people wearing crucifixes, and included - inter alia - those few people wearing the moslem 'hijab', and some men with beards. oh - and people handing out hizb ut tahrir leaflets -- that's quite a giveaway.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

i think i understood only too well.

d'you think i'm some sort of heartless sectarian, who'd cheer to see the stop the war coalition go to the wall?



don't answer that.

i always knew it would have no success, especially as i have been assured that the demonstration was timed to try to influence the labour party conference. & if a million or more people won't influence the government, fucking 6 - 7,000 definitely won't. although i don't find the long, languid decline of the swc as amusing as once i hoped, i do find plenty of interest in it - like how not to campaign, for example.

it's also useful to judge the size & influence of other not entirely unrelated organisations, like the ruc/swp.

I don't think you're a "heartless sectarian" (maybe a misguided one...) tbh I take no pleasure in the seeming decline of the STWC at all, I would have prefered it was more inclusive of other types of protest tactics/viewpoints (I think one of their biggest mistakes was never calling for direct action/civ disobedience), developed something of a proposal for an alternative to the war and occupation and not had the SWP anywhere near it.

 

[tobyjug]

dsei

Just testing.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

skewered?

& you want to put me in danger of that?

My point is you're are too close to your subject matter and without direct experience of them as people (which assume is the case given that you have not challenged me on that assumption) you are losing (lost?) perspective very quickly.

 

[Pickman's model]

I would have prefered it was more inclusive of other types of protest tactics/viewpoints (I think one of their biggest mistakes was never calling for direct action/civ disobedience), developed something of a proposal for an alternative to the war and occupation and not had the SWP anywhere near it.

so would i.

 

[Pickman's model]

My point is you're are too close to your subject matter and without direct experience of them as people (which assume is the case given that you have not challenged me on that assumption) you are losing (lost?) perspective very quickly.

i don't have much personal experience with fascists, except of the full & frank discussion type, but i can spot the fuckers a mile off. it's lots easier to spot moslems, too.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

i don't have much personal experience with fascists, but i can spot the fuckers a mile off. it's lots easier to spot moslems, too.

Ok, fine, you know what I mean but play your games.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ok, fine, you know what I mean but play your games.

oh!

i thought you were still on the spotting bit...

there were a few moslems in my year at school, i live near a mosque so i have quite a bit of direct contact with moslems, i've worked near the east london mosque - bringing me into contact with quite a few moslems - and i used to enjoy a bit of banter with the lads at the finsbury park mosque when i had an arsenal season ticket.

& that's not mentioning the moslems i met when i was at college, many of whom were active in hizb ut tahrir.

 

[mk12]

Just come back. It was small. That is all.

 

[JHE]

Just come back. It was small. That is all.

The organisers claim "up to 100,000". Do you think they are sincerely mistaken or lying?

 

[districtline]

The organisers claim "up to 100,000". Do you think they are sincerely mistaken or lying?

ha!

i say mistaken.

 

[Pickman's model]

that 100,000 is straight out of the trotskyite school of falsification.

 

[mk12]

The organisers claim "up to 100,000". Do you think they are sincerely mistaken or lying?

Ask them.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ask them.

er...

they've said something entirely at odds with the truth!

either they're mistaken - it might, after all, be force of habit to say there were 100,000 out; or they're lying wankers, which is, imvho, sadly more likely.

 

[mk12]

They've probably put a bit of spin on it. Couldn't care less to be honest.

 

[Pickman's model]

Organisers of the London rally had predicted crowds in the "tens of thousands" and claimed afterwards that numbers had reached anything up to 100,000.


But Scotland Yard put the figure at 10,000 and officers at the scene even fewer.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13444947,00.html

it's interesting that the "official" police estimate appears to have been made without reference to what the plod on the ground thought...

 

[tobyjug]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13444947,00.html

it's interesting that the "official" police estimate appears to have been made without reference to what the plod on the ground thought...

Looking at the overhead shots shown on TV news bulletins, the "crowd" seemed a tad sparse to be much more than a few thousand.

 

[Pickman's model]

Looking at the overhead shots shown on TV news bulletins, the "crowd" seemed a tad sparse to be much more than a few thousand.

yeh, i'd go 6,000.

 

[tobyjug]

The organisers claim "up to 100,000". Do you think they are sincerely mistaken or lying?

Lying, using the TV coverage as evidence.

 

[Patty]

So from all accounts it was a bit of a faliure, in so far as it was small?
I wasn't there (had to work) and i'm a million miles away from London.
I dunno, i've come to view the swc with neither respect(no pun intended) no contempt. Not suprised it was small though, Dispite the fact that the war is even more un popular now than it was during the swc's hey day.
Could that be anything to do with the fact that most "ordinary" people just don't like lefties? I mean paper sellers, political T-Shirt wareers(spellin bad, I know) and obnoxious men with magaphones attached to their bottom lips?

 

[tobyjug]

Could that be anything to do with the fact that most "ordinary" people just don't like lefties? I mean paper sellers, political T-Shirt wareers(spellin bad, I know) and obnoxious men with magaphones attached to their bottom lips?

(You left out the Samba bands), other than that:- You may say that, I of course could not possibly comment.

 

[JHE]

They've probably put a bit of spin on it.

The Social Workers' guru and stand-up comedian manqué made a habit of saying, 'Never lie to the class!'

Don't lie - 'spin'!

 

[tollbar]

Whats interesting is that this march would have been even smaller had there not been a organised contingent from Scotland which has not been the case with previous StWC demos in London.

 

[mk12]

So from all accounts it was a bit of a faliure, in so far as it was small?
I wasn't there (had to work) and i'm a million miles away from London.
I dunno, i've come to view the swc with neither respect(no pun intended) no contempt. Not suprised it was small though, Dispite the fact that the war is even more un popular now than it was during the swc's hey day.
Could that be anything to do with the fact that most "ordinary" people just don't like lefties? I mean paper sellers, political T-Shirt wareers(spellin bad, I know) and obnoxious men with magaphones attached to their bottom lips?

How do you account for the hundreds of thousands, millions, of marchers over the last couple of years then?

 

[oisleep]

how do you account for them now matt?

 

[laptop]

Whats interesting is that this march would have been even smaller had there not been a organised contingent from Scotland which has not been the case with previous StWC demos in London.

I was guessing that the majority of marchers had come from outside London. Often happens with demos that don't catch the mood - poor bastards from Aberdeen have bought their tickets, spend N* hours on a bus and arrive to find that the whole of London has stayed home.

I arrived late, though. Tactical-strength hangover (thanks Mation ) so set out straight for the park... bus slowed down around Chancery Lane and ground to a halt by Holborn. And I was told that Bayswater Road was stuffed coming the other way...

Was there some kind of blockage on Oxford Street, around Bond Street? Nothing on Indymedia. Or did it do it itself?




(* where N = Numb Bum)

 

[articul8]

They missed the boat - if they organised a demo shortly after the London bombings and the shooting of de Menzes it could have been massive.

Why do i get the feeling some "bright" spark said, nah - we'll leave it a few weeks and have it pre-Labour conference and force Blair aside

 

[Nigel Irritable]

They missed the boat - if they organised a demo shortly after the London bombings and the shooting of de Menzes it could have been massive.

There's a strong element of truth in that - and it was an issue that caused serious disagreement on the Stop the War steering committee.

After the London bombings, Socialist Party members argued for a demonstration as quickly as possible and for the slogans and material to make clear the opposition of the anti-war movement to such bombings. If I recall correctly the slogans proposed were along the lines of "No to war, No to terrorism, No to racism". However the SWP opposed both the idea of holding the demonstration earlier and any notion of highlighting opposition to terrorism like that.