What? No Irish election thread?

[8den]

Still, there needs to be change, the gap between rich and poor though narrower than the UK's gap, needs to be closed. Sinn Fein seems to be the only party offering the radical agenda that is needed to address these problems.

Bollocks Sinn Fein wear the trappings of left wing party, yet when they get a sniff of power, they show their true colours. Nationally they are anti service charges, a power to the people issue, thats hot across the country but really a button issue in working class areas of Dublin and Cork. What happened in Sligo when a SF County Councilor had to vote on service charges? He voted in favour of them. SF, anti privatisation of our health service? Voted for private partnership hosipitals in NI assembly.

As for a radical agenda, Mary Lou Mac Fucking Donnell, my fucking MEP, who has been velcro'd to Addams all election, during the European Elections, she refused to define the murder of Jean McConville, shot by the IRA in the 80s a "crime". This is a party that will not let go of the trappings of republican socialism, as a show, but time and time again, when they do get near power they are the same as the rest of that shower of bastards.

Nino theres decent discussion here
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=903

But Neo Conservative PDs are as usual over represented.

Fucking funny story, I was back for a wedding two weekends ago, and most of the people were my age, one woman, spent fifteen minutes, trying to convince me to come back and vote for Fianna Fail. I was kinda agog. Turns out this bimbo knows nothing about politics and has never really voted, but wants to buy a house this year, and wants everyone to vote Fianna Fail who's campaign promise is to abolish stamp duty for first time buyers. Unbe-fucking-lievable.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

The myth of the Celtic Tiger is just that: a myth.

I haven't lived in Ireland for over twenty years so I don't know how it is like now. but reading this thread, I was just going to ask about that famous Celtic Tiger. for businessmen, yes, by the sound of it.

someone mentioned why FG might be seen as leftwing. it did appear rather liberal in the early eighties apart from some old crusty old blokes, unlike the rightwing catholic FF. anyone remembers the abortion referendum in 1983 with gareth fitzgerald?

 

[N_igma]

someone mentioned why FG might be seen as leftwing. it did appear rather liberal in the early eighties apart from some old crusty old blokes, unlike the rightwing catholic FF. anyone remembers the abortion referendum in 1983 with gareth fitzgerald?

Traditionally FG are seen as the right-wing party.

What's this about a Celtic Tiger myth? There were journals floating about in the early 90's which read "Is Ireland a 3rd world country?" No joke, now it has the second highest GDP per capita in the world and has a large industry based economy as well as agriculture and services. Of course there is poverty in the inner-cities and some rural areas but Ireland has come leaps and bounds since the mid 90's.

 

[Gingerman]

Might not be perfect in Ireland at the moment but its a lot better than when I grew up there in the '70s and '80s with its mass unemployment and mass emigration, a lot of my Irish mates have moved back from London in the last few years.The health service and the transport infrastructure need to be sorted out asap though.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Traditionally FG are seen as the right-wing party.

What's this about a Celtic Tiger myth? There were journals floating about in the early 90's which read "Is Ireland a 3rd world country?" No joke, now it has the second highest GDP per capita in the world and has a large industry based economy as well as agriculture and services. Of course there is poverty in the inner-cities and some rural areas but Ireland has come leaps and bounds since the mid 90's.

I definitely know that FG is a right wing and I definitely know its origin in the blue shirts. it did seem to me at the time that there was this old crusties wing from that time (I still remember some hard right wing nutters who was a local MP (I can't remember what they are called in Ireland) from somewhat near the border, I think) who was mad as a hatter. he even came up with some theory that there might be a coup in the offing by the army, he died when I was there, early eighties, 83? ), but what I was referring to was the abortion referendum in 83 with the yes led by Gareth Fitzgerald, FG (is he still alive?) and the no led by FF and Charlie Haughey. I have never said that there were leftwing! in fact there was definitely not much leftism then. there was a labour party but probably not too leftwing, and not much power as they had not exactly not many MPs (TDs?).

 

[Gingerman]

FG are normaly seen as liberal on social issues and conservetive economically but to be honest you could'nt slip a cigarette paper between FG and FF

 

[lewislewis]

I fully understand Ireland's health service is elitist and is terrible, but what is this whole Celtic Tiger myth thing, seriously, fifteen years ago my mates would've had to leave their own country to get a good job...and Nino Savette is saying he hopes his daughter doesn't go and live there! For all it's health service and transport failings and wealth inequality, I love Ireland and admire the Irish people, throughout history they have fought against people who talk them down and say they can't have a prosperous society, there are now tonnes of opportunities for everyone. Ireland is one of the best places to live in the world, it wasn't that long ago in historical terms that this same place that is now fully modernised and with an increasing population, was not able to feed itself ! In more recent terms a poster above pointed out considerations that Ireland was declining into a 'third world country', Ireland used to be ranked with the old eastern bloc in terms of quality of life. While poverty remains (as it does in every country in the world) it is at a far less extent than the old Ireland. I won't stand for that beautiful country being talked about as if it is some kind of decaying slum.

The only downside is that everything in Eire seems more competitive, alot of people are losing out in that competition and must be compensated for by whatever new government is elected next.

 

[Gingerman]

I fully understand Ireland's health service is elitist and is terrible, but what is this whole Celtic Tiger myth thing, seriously, fifteen years ago my mates would've had to leave their own country to get a good job...and Nino Savette is saying he hopes his daughter doesn't go and live there! For all it's health service and transport failings and wealth inequality, I love Ireland and admire the Irish people, throughout history they have fought against people who talk them down and say they can't have a prosperous society, there are now tonnes of opportunities for everyone. Ireland is one of the best places to live in the world, it wasn't that long ago in historical terms that this same place that is now fully modernised and with an increasing population, was not able to feed itself ! In more recent terms a poster above pointed out considerations that Ireland was declining into a 'third world country', Ireland used to be ranked with the old eastern bloc in terms of quality of life. While poverty remains (as it does in every country in the world) it is at a far less extent than the old Ireland. I won't stand for that beautiful country being talked about as if it is some kind of decaying slum.

The only downside is that everything in Eire seems more competitive, alot of people are losing out in that competition and must be compensated for by whatever new government is elected next.

Totally agree with you,Irelands economic upturn has occured only in the space of a few years,but the health service and transport infrastructure has'nt been able to keep pace with peoples increased expectations.When I left school in the mid '80s there was only two choices available,emigration or dole thank fuck young school leavers now got better choices than I had.

 

[nino_savatte]

That's fine and I too visit Ireland regularly, at least twice every year.

Health and housing are the biggest problems in my view, rural poverty? As far as I can tell there hasn't been any rural poverty in Ireland (on any significant scale) since about 1999.
The rural transport network is a key issue as you have suggested...but if you visit Ireland regularly like me surely you've noticed how things, broadly, have improved?

Still, there needs to be change, the gap between rich and poor though narrower than the UK's gap, needs to be closed. Sinn Fein seems to be the only party offering the radical agenda that is needed to address these problems.

I have seen plenty of rural poverty, particularly out in parts of North Co. Cork and parts of Kerry. I haven't noticed many improvements to the transport system; if I wanted to travel from Cork to Galway, I would have to travel into Dublin and back out again; going to some place like Waterford would require a similar journey. Donegal and Sligo were both served by the railway network until the 1950's; now it is completely cut off from the rest of the country (you can reach it by Bus Eireann of course).

My daughter used to live out near a place called Newmarket and the first and only bus there was at 7 in the morning and you could forget the last bus back, because it had already left before you arrived.

If you're on a fairly low wage, you don't have access to free health care, you have to pay for it.

Aye, I think the Shinners could make all the difference in this election.

 

[nino_savatte]

FG are normaly seen as liberal on social issues and conservetive economically but to be honest you could'nt slip a cigarette paper between FG and FF

Innit? They both want to outdo each other in the "Who is more republican" stakes.

 

[N_igma]

I have seen plenty of rural poverty, particularly out in parts of North Co. Cork and parts of Kerry. I haven't noticed many improvements to the transport system; if I wanted to travel from Cork to Galway, I would have to travel into Dublin and back out again; going to some place like Waterford would require a similar journey.

Bollocks.

I went from Cork City to Galway city over the summer without having to go to Dublin.

 

[nino_savatte]

Bollocks.

I went from Cork City to Galway city over the summer without having to go to Dublin.

On the train? Direct from Cork City? Or did you have to change twice? When I played in Galway in the 90's, I had to take a coach from Galway to Cork and change at Limerickeek: ) because there was no direct train route between the two.

 

[N_igma]

On the train? Direct from Cork City? Or did you have to change twice? When I played in Galway in the 90's, I had to take a coach from Galway to Cork and change at Limerickeek: ) because there was no direct train route between the two.

No, on the bus. I thought you meant no direct transport at all. I agree Irish Rail is woeful, anything other than Cork, Dublin or Belfast then you're looking for switching all over the place. I really feel sorry for Donegal, it's so isolated it's not even funny.

 

[lewislewis]

I have seen plenty of rural poverty, particularly out in parts of North Co. Cork and parts of Kerry. I haven't noticed many improvements to the transport system; if I wanted to travel from Cork to Galway, I would have to travel into Dublin and back out again; going to some place like Waterford would require a similar journey. Donegal and Sligo were both served by the railway network until the 1950's; now it is completely cut off from the rest of the country (you can reach it by Bus Eireann of course).

My daughter used to live out near a place called Newmarket and the first and only bus there was at 7 in the morning and you could forget the last bus back, because it had already left before you arrived.

If you're on a fairly low wage, you don't have access to free health care, you have to pay for it.

Aye, I think the Shinners could make all the difference in this election.

I am genuinely sorry you can't travel so easily from Cork to Galway fair point, but aren't we both glad Irish lads don't have to go on the dole and can, if they so choose, get a job in their own country?

Would you agree there have been huge improvements to quality of life in Ireland in the past ten years? An improvement might I add at a pace unmatched by anwhere else in Europe. Ireland is a brilliant place to live compared to the UK.

The real tragedy is the people that get left behind and like I said, it is high time the Irish govt got a kick up the backside from voters, I would naturally stray towards FF but they are quite corrupt, so if I was an Irish voter i'd back SF. I think a good vote for the Shinners will scare FF into action. There needs to be a strong social democratic party that keeps the economy going well but rakes in enough in taxes to deliver public services.

 

[8den]

No, on the bus. I thought you meant no direct transport at all. I agree Irish Rail is woeful, anything other than Cork, Dublin or Belfast then you're looking for switching all over the place. I really feel sorry for Donegal, it's so isolated it's not even funny.

It's gotten better Dublin to Letterkenny is now a mere 4 1/2 to 5 hours depending on traffic. I can remember doing that journey as a kid, the difference in road quality when you crossed over the border was astonishing. We also used to buy all our new shoes for the next school year, in Straband when coming home from our summer holidays. The moment people from the north started shopping in the south was a watershed.

I am genuinely sorry you can't travel so easily from Cork to Galway fair point, but aren't we both glad Irish lads don't have to go on the dole and can, if they so choose, get a job in their own country?

But are priced out of the property market in Ireland. I moved here from dublin two years ago. And I miss it completely, yes my chosen profession took a hit and I'm in london because I can earn more than in Dublin but the simple fact is I could buy a house in London and not in Dublin.

Well yes I could have bought a house in fucking Lucan, or Swords, and spent my life in traffic.

While quality of life has risen investment in infrastructure has been short sighted and misspent. The Irish economy is phenominally dependent on the construction industry and the property market is about to crash.

Lewis why are you placing such faith in SF? They've next to no experience of government, and when they do get a sniff of power their actions turn out to be radically different to their stated policies.

 

[lewislewis]

Mate I can't buy a house in Wales either so i'm not surprised : (

I think SF behaved superbly over the peace process and are a left alternative to FF, I don't have huge faith in them and if I was in Irish voter it'd be either them, Labour or FF.

 

[nino_savatte]

No, on the bus. I thought you meant no direct transport at all. I agree Irish Rail is woeful, anything other than Cork, Dublin or Belfast then you're looking for switching all over the place. I really feel sorry for Donegal, it's so isolated it's not even funny.

Aye, Donegal and Sligo are really cut off from the rest of the country. Once upon a time you could take a train from Cork City to Waterford...but they closed the line in the 1960's (iirc). I don't think it's possible to travel to Donegal via NI because the line stops at Derry.

 

[nino_savatte]

I am genuinely sorry you can't travel so easily from Cork to Galway fair point, but aren't we both glad Irish lads don't have to go on the dole and can, if they so choose, get a job in their own country?

Would you agree there have been huge improvements to quality of life in Ireland in the past ten years? An improvement might I add at a pace unmatched by anwhere else in Europe. Ireland is a brilliant place to live compared to the UK.

The real tragedy is the people that get left behind and like I said, it is high time the Irish govt got a kick up the backside from voters, I would naturally stray towards FF but they are quite corrupt, so if I was an Irish voter i'd back SF. I think a good vote for the Shinners will scare FF into action. There needs to be a strong social democratic party that keeps the economy going well but rakes in enough in taxes to deliver public services.

The FF have always been corrupt, they literally conscripted republicanism to serve their needs...even their name recalls the Fianna, the legendary warrior heroes. They still like to play up their anti-Treaty credentials too.

I really hope the PD take a pasting.

 

[8den]

Aye, Donegal and Sligo are really cut off from the rest of the country. Once upon a time you could take a train from Cork City to Waterford...but they closed the line in the 1960's (iirc). I don't think it's possible to travel to Donegal via NI because the line stops at Derry.

Nope the Donegal stations in Letterkenny and Donegal town have been down for decades.

 

[rekil]

Totally agree with you,Irelands economic upturn has occured only in the space of a few years,but the health service and transport infrastructure has'nt been able to keep pace with peoples increased expectations.When I left school in the mid '80s there was only two choices available,emigration or dole thank fuck young school leavers now got better choices than I had.

I don't think Irish people have any expectations beyond acquiring a bit of property. We are a timid bunch.

 

[nino_savatte]

According to this article from The Independent, Ahern is just marginally ahead of Kenny.

Ahern scored a decisive victory over Kenny in a televised debate last week. An opinion poll published yesterday showed a quite dramatic Fianna Fail surge, indicating that voters give Ahern the edge over Kenny on issues such as representing the country well, keeping taxes low and, crucially, successfully managing the economy. In the poll Ahern lost out on the issue of the much-criticised health service and providing good quality childcare. But Kenny has lost his early momentum, and if this latest trend continues Fianna Fail seems destined to return to government.
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2567958.ece

FF have pledged to keep taxes low but the only people who truly benefit from such low taxes are those who are already wealthy. I don't see FF sorting out the health service mess, they are more likely to make things worse for those who rely on it.

FF will be relying heavily on support from the PDs. If the Shinners get more votes, then there is a very small possibility that FF will form a coalition with them, but that is highly unlikely.

Here are the latest betting odds

http://www.readabet.com/index.php/home/article/10584

 

[nino_savatte]

Ahern slams biased coverage

What's he complaining about? He's almost got the election in the bag.

Issues surrounding the purchase of Mr Ahern's home dogged the first fortnight of the Fianna Fail campaign and Mr Ahern was forced to issue a personal statement last weekend following demands by Opposition parties and Coalition partners, the Progressive Democrats.

Mr Ahern said today: "At our press conferences, people were coming in quite hostile against my ministers. They didn't want to talk about jobs and health.
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0520/breaking46.htm

That story about the briefcase full of cash won't go away. I like the way Ahern says "They didn't want to talk about jobs and health", nor do you, matey, nor do you.

 

[nino_savatte]

Article from the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6655603.stm

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Polling begins in a few hours. The polls are too close to tell who is going to win - the most likely scenario is that neither the Fianna Fail / Progressive Democrat government nor the Fine Gael / Labour / Greens alternative will have a majority. That means there are likely to be a lot of negotiations before a government is formed. Not that it matters very much. There is no fundamental difference between any of the main parties.

The most interesting thing is how the candidates of the radical left will do. The Socialist Party could get two TDs (or one, or none). There are also a couple of left wing independents with a shot.

The best chances for the left are Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party in Dublin West and Seamas Healy, an independent in South Tipperary, who are both sitting TDs. The best chances of adding to those are Clare Daly, again of the Socialist Party in Dublin North, and Joan Collins, another independent, in Dublin South Central.

Beyond that the other Socialist Party candidates should do fairly well, as should a few of the other leftists.

Dream scenario: Twice as many Socialist Party TDs as Progressive Democrats in the Dail.

 

[disownedspirit]

i like the idea of voting for joan collins

good luck today nige

 

[8den]

The best chances for the left are Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party in Dublin West and Seamas Healy, an independent in South Tipperary, who are both sitting TDs. The best chances of adding to those are Clare Daly, .

I know Clare Daly and frankly she'd be no asset in the Dail. It'd be like getting Joe Higgins in stereo. Joe's fine he's great but theres no point to having another one.

 

[lewislewis]

FF will win, same coalition as before. I don't think the Irish people trust anybody else with their economy, also I think Ahern's personal appeal and magnetism makes him very hard to beat. Once Ahern retires, FF will be in real trouble. Of course, my opinions are irrelevant beyond this forum and the decision of Ireland will be made clear tomorrow.

 

[nino_savatte]

Polling begins in a few hours. The polls are too close to tell who is going to win - the most likely scenario is that neither the Fianna Fail / Progressive Democrat government nor the Fine Gael / Labour / Greens alternative will have a majority. That means there are likely to be a lot of negotiations before a government is formed. Not that it matters very much. There is no fundamental difference between any of the main parties.

The most interesting thing is how the candidates of the radical left will do. The Socialist Party could get two TDs (or one, or none). There are also a couple of left wing independents with a shot.

The best chances for the left are Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party in Dublin West and Seamas Healy, an independent in South Tipperary, who are both sitting TDs. The best chances of adding to those are Clare Daly, again of the Socialist Party in Dublin North, and Joan Collins, another independent, in Dublin South Central.

Beyond that the other Socialist Party candidates should do fairly well, as should a few of the other leftists.

Dream scenario: Twice as many Socialist Party TDs as Progressive Democrats in the Dail.

I've got my fingers crossed for the Socialists.

 

[nino_savatte]

Aye, I think it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that we'll be looking at another coalition government, though what stripe it will be is anyone's guess. I know the FF and the PDs will bed together; it's only natural. As will FG and Labour.

 

[nino_savatte]

Voting is slow, according to RTE.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0524/election.html

Here's a handy map of all the constituencies and candidates.
http://www.rte.ie/news/elections2007/