What? No Irish election thread?

[nino_savatte]

Ahearn calls election for May 24
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6595376,00.html

Ahearn has also been facing allegations of financial irregularities (so what's new?).

Ahern been accused by opposition leaders of squandering Ireland's unprecedented run of good economic fortune and failing to fix the country's myriad problems with transport and health care.

Aye, the transport system in rural Ireland is bloody non-existent.

But there's barely a choice for the Irish voters: FF or FG. Whoopee!

 

[Idris2002]

As you know, I only post on urban when there's serious provocation.

I don't think anything is going to stop FG's long term decline. Once the older generation of FG voters dies off, their vote will slip below 20%, and it'll be time to measure the party for its coffin. That might not happen this election, but it's coming, IMV.

In the old days that might have meant FG being supplanted by Labour - but not now. It's Sinn Fein that's picking up the protest votes, and they'll be the ones to watch in the coming election.

There'll be a barrage of media propaganda reminding voters of all the innocent people killed by the Provies, and alleging continuing involvement in criminality. But that won't be enough to stop voters turning to SF.

SF might not pick up enough votes to enter government - but it's only a matter of time before they do so, IMO.

Around the country, meanwhile there are other weird and wonderful candidates outside the mainstream. You have Seamus Healey in Tipperary, and Jerry Cowley in Mayo, who's spoken up for the Rossport community that's fighting Shell. In Dublin there's the Trots it's OK to like, the Socialist Party, who might well get Clare Daly elected alongside Joe Higgins this time around.

Whatever happens, FF will remain the dominant force, the natural party of government. But the emergence of the social fractures in Celtic Tiger Ireland will find their expression in the electoral contest, as they do in the rates of drug and alcohol abuse, suicide, and seriously flawed health care and transport infrastructure

 

[nino_savatte]

As you know, I only post on urban when there's serious provocation.

I don't think anything is going to stop FG's long term decline. Once the older generation of FG voters dies off, their vote will slip below 20%, and it'll be time to measure the party for its coffin. That might not happen this election, but it's coming, IMV.

In the old days that might have meant FG being supplanted by Labour - but not now. It's Sinn Fein that's picking up the protest votes, and they'll be the ones to watch in the coming election.

There'll be a barrage of media propaganda reminding voters of all the innocent people killed by the Provies, and alleging continuing involvement in criminality. But that won't be enough to stop voters turning to SF.

SF might not pick up enough votes to enter government - but it's only a matter of time before they do so, IMO.

Around the country, meanwhile there are other weird and wonderful candidates outside the mainstream. You have Seamus Healey in Tipperary, and Jerry Cowley in Mayo, who's spoken up for the Rossport community that's fighting Shell. In Dublin there's the Trots it's OK to like, the Socialist Party, who might well get Clare Daly elected alongside Joe Higgins this time around.

Whatever happens, FF will remain the dominant force, the natural party of government. But the emergence of the social fractures in Celtic Tiger Ireland will find their expression in the electoral contest, as they do in the rates of drug and alcohol abuse, suicide, and seriously flawed health care and transport infrastructure

Good post, Idris. I had the feeling that FG were looking rather tired and jaded despite Enda Kenny's upbeat words. As for Labour, they really are a spent force...pity for them because they had so much going for them in the early 30's, now they're just a prop for FG (which is odd given their historic links to the Blueshirts).

I was just looking at his Wikipedia entry when I saw this.

Enda Kenny was born without a penis in Castlebar, County Mayo and was educated at Gerard's College (De La Salle) in Castlebar, St. Patrick's Teacher Training College, Drumcondra and University College Galway where he qualified as a primary school teacher. Kenny was only 24 when he was elected to the Dáil in a by-election caused by the death of his father Henry. Kenny Sr. had been a TD since 1954 and was serving as a Parliamentary Secretary at the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enda_Kenny

Looks like some wag's been doing some naughty editing.

Is it possible that Ireland will finally become a one party state?

 

[nino_savatte]

As Idris points out, Ireland's health service is likely to be a key issue in the forthcoming election. For those of you who aren't aware: there is no health service to speak of. If you're employed, you have to pay for treatment - regardless of your income.

My daughter has told me a couple of scary tales of Ireland's health service. her description of Mallow Hospital was enough to give me the heebeegeebees.
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/57314.html

 

[Idris2002]

I was 'educated' at Castlebar De La Salle brothers' school. . . if you could call it that. . .

And if Enda has no penis, why is he such a prick?

 

[nino_savatte]

I was 'educated' at Castlebar De La Salle brothers' school. . . if you could call it that. . .

And if Enda has no penis, why is he such a prick?

Justement.

 

[nino_savatte]

Ahern is still facing allegations of financial wrongdoing when he was Finance Minister.

The Irish Times reported on Monday that businessman Michael Wall gave 30,000 pounds sterling ($59,830) in December 1994 to Ahern's then partner Celia Larkin to fund work on a house owned by Wall but rented by Ahern and bought by him three years later.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNe...30?src=043007_1401_FEATURES_reuters_newsmaker

Ahern, apparently, arrived at Manchester Airport with a briefcase full of cash.

Ahern has already survived a controversy last Autumn over money from a group of friends in Manchester. He admitted an error of judgment in accepting money from friends who organized collections for him when he was finance minister with personal cash difficulties while going through a marital separation.
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irishinamerica/news/AhernDeniesManchesterCashStash180407.asp

The auld "error of judgement" argument - eh? I suppose he did his best "I'm just a helpless wee boy" routine in the Dail.

We like to think that British politicians are a wee bit prone to scandal but our scandals are put into the shade by those in Irish politics.

 

[8den]

I was back last weekend after far too long, and couldn't get over the change;

1. Traffic, Dublin's infrastructure, never mind the countries infrastructure is completely screwed.

2. I passed by a massive private hospitial open just outside of Dublin, the health service is a joke.

3. This

is an advertisment for an apartment complex, frankly if you need to use sex to sell apartments, the housing market is fucking. So much of the Irish economy is based on construction. Immirgrants, most Poles, are funding the economy mostly in construction jobs, people have second apartments, which they let out to immirgrants, if confidence in the market, falters, people stop making houses, and the whole house of cards falls. Ireland is heading for a property disaster

 

[nino_savatte]

I was back last weekend after far too long, and couldn't get over the change;

1. Traffic, Dublin's infrastructure, never mind the countries infrastructure is completely screwed.

2. I passed by a massive private hospitial open just outside of Dublin, the health service is a joke.

3. This

is an advertisment for an apartment complex, frankly if you need to use sex to sell apartments, the housing market is fucking. So much of the Irish economy is based on construction. Immirgrants, most Poles, are funding the economy mostly in construction jobs, people have second apartments, which they let out to immirgrants, if confidence in the market, falters, people stop making houses, and the whole house of cards falls. Ireland is heading for a property disaster

That's pretty bloody typical of the new Ireland: the rich get even richer and the poor don't count until election time...after which they are quickly forgotten.

Transport in Ireland is pretty poor too - as you point out. I was at Cork Airport a few years ago and some woman from the Tourist Board comes up and asks me some questions about my visit. Her last question was "What could be improved to make future stays better"? I said, "Sort out the railways, they're a mess". The woman looked at me as though I was insane and I said "I'm serious"!

I doubt the railways will ever be sorted out. There is talk about reopening the line from Cork to Mitchelstown but no plans to reopen lines in Sligo or Donegal. It's not even possible to take a single train journey from Galway to Cork.

 

[nino_savatte]

Interesting article from Anarkismo on Ireland's two-tier health service.

Your money or your life?
In January 2005, Michael X, a courier driver, went to see his GP complaining of recurrent diarrhoea and passing some blood. Following an examination, his GP sent a letter to arrange for an appointment with a gastro-enterologist for specialist assessment. His appointment arrived in the post - he could see the consultant in July, six months later.

He duly attended in July and was told by the specialist he needed urgent hospital investigation. He was given a date for admission three weeks later but a week before this date, his admission was cancelled as there was a bed shortage at the hospital. He was subsequently given a new appointment for late October. However, only two days before this booked admission date, he was again phoned and his appointment cancelled; the reason this time was an outbreak of 'vomiting bug' at the hospital. The secretary who phoned him apologised for the delay.

He was given a new appointment and finally, 11 months after he first sought advice, he had his 20 minute bowel test. Unfortunately, he was diagnosed with cancer of the bowel. (The very thing his GP said he needed to go to hospital to be tested for). He was operated on two days later and made a good recovery. However his diagnosis was complicated by the fact that the cancer had spread beyond the wall of his gut. He remained optimistic but just before Christmas 2006 he became quite ill and had to give up work. He died last month.

It has since emerged that if 'Michael X' had had private insurance he could have seen the consultant within a few weeks of his GP visit in January of 2005. In all probability his cancer would have been caught in time and he would still be alive. It is worth mentioning that he is sadly missed by his wife, three children, and all his friends.


http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=5457

Filthy hospitals? That's only the beginning. Whenever I go to Ireland I hope that I never fall ill or get injured. If you do and you can't afford the best, you die.

 

[rekil]

Looks like the PDs are going to be wiped out unless they shoot McDowell in the head or something.

 

[Idris2002]

Looks like the PDs are going to be wiped out unless they shoot McDowell in the head or something.

You have no idea how my heart leapt when I read that sentence.

Can you imagine how Ireland could have been changed for the better if that clique of Thatcherite swine hadn't been able to insinuate themselves into power?

 

[N_igma]

Is it possible that Ireland will finally become a one party state?

Nope.

It's only a matter of time before SF become the party people will be looking to form coalitions with. FF will always be the biggest party IMO. Ireland is a strange country concerning politics. There's less focus on class and ideologies and more on personalities. And that's what it basically comes down to at the end of the day.

Oh and rural transport is shite, ever go to North West Donegal and you'll know all about it.

 

[Irenick]

My Mam’s from Mayo; and coincidently, she too was born without a penis. Is this a Mayo thing?

 

[rekil]

You have no idea how my heart leapt when I read that sentence.

Can you imagine how Ireland could have been changed for the better if that clique of Thatcherite swine hadn't been able to insinuate themselves into power?

Yep, FF's self styled watchdogs made another mistake by not resigning from government over Bertie's latest jiggery pokery. Probably cos it seems that Bertie's popularity hasn't suffered.

The Swappies are running as The People Before Profit Alliance. Gawd.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nope.

It's only a matter of time before SF become the party people will be looking to form coalitions with. FF will always be the biggest party IMO. Ireland is a strange country concerning politics. There's less focus on class and ideologies and more on personalities. And that's what it basically comes down to at the end of the day.

Oh and rural transport is shite, ever go to North West Donegal and you'll know all about it.

Hmmm, I think in FF's case, they constantly rely on the production of myths for their survival and the electorate lap it up. Because there is no focus on class issues and no real ideologies to speak of, the Irish political system will always be corrupt. Labour had their chance in the 1930's but they blew it when they ran scared of FF's accusations that they were "siding with Moscow". I mean, the Labour Party ffs!

 

[nino_savatte]

What's the betting this all slides off of Ahern's back like water off an oil-slicked cormorant?

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern was tonight forced by his Coalition partners to make a statement on controversies surrounding his financial affairs.

The move comes at the end of a dramatic week General Election campaign and after the Progressive Democrats party threatened to quit the Government.

Mr Ahern, who previously insisted he would deal with the issue after the May 24 polling day, will consult his lawyers later this week and then prepare a statement.
http://www.eveningecho.ie/news/bstory.asp?j=4641945&p=464y96x&n=4642037

The Irish Examiner (formerly the Cork Examiner) has this to say about the Tánaiste (Deputy PM)

Labour leader Pat Rabbitte neatly encapsulated this when responding to Mr McDowell’s statement.

“Mr McDowell has effectively called the Taoiseach a liar ... but it’s extraordinary that such a charge can be made without Mr McDowell being able to tell us on what information he bases this. What has got worse since the beginning of the week? ... I think we need to know that.”

http://www.examiner.ie/irishexamine...m=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=32164-qqqx=1.asp

What a mess!

 

[8den]

But fuck me Fianna Fail can totally do a campaign ad

As bloggorah said, there's more stars in that than cannonball run.

 

[nino_savatte]

But fuck me Fianna Fail can totally do a campaign ad

As bloggorah said, there's more stars in that than cannonball run.

I only watched part of that. I don't think I could have stomached anymore. The message appears to be "Bertie Ahern: World Statesman with friends in high places".

 

[8den]

I only watched part of that. I don't think I could have stomached anymore. The message appears to be "Bertie Ahern: World Statesman with friends in high places".

Better than the more honest original
"Bertie Ahern with friends carrying brown envelopes."

 

[nino_savatte]

Better than the more honest original
"Bertie Ahern with friends carrying brown envelopes."

Innit.

 

[krtek a houby]

Nice to see some debate on this here. I weep when I see the debates on Irish forums elsewhere... if you read it, you wonder if we are Thatcher's children...

What's happened to my country?

 

[equationgirl]

I moved to Dublin last September, and am moving back to the UK next week.

Transport infrastructure is screwed, depsite the outward signs of heavy investment (lots of 'thanks to the EU for this road/bridge/railway' signs) and the Luas in Dublin. Excpet the two Luas lines don't intersect and the DART only runs North-south on the edge of the city. A joke. And don't start me on the traffic congestion.

The Health system is a joke. A very scary, not funny-at-all joke. I have to pay 50 euro each time I see a doctor. I have to pay for each of my drugs. Fair enough, except the Health Board won't see one of them as necessary and refuses to put it on the Drug Repayment Scheme (where they promise no-one, regardless of income, shall pay more than 85 euro in total a month for medication), so I have to pay full price for that and for the other two drugs I need - 130 euro A MONTH! In the UK, that would cover all my medication for a year. My health insurance costs 53 euro a month too.

My colleague's boyfriend had the misfortune to develop kidney stones a couple of weeks ago. After a trip to A&E he was told he would be given a hospital appointment - FOR JULY! The poor man was weeing blood He managed to get seen quicker only because he had been part of the build team for one of the local hospitals and managed to call in a favour with a consultant and a nurse. He's still waiting to hear when the treatment will be carried out, but they hope to do it over the next couple of months.

 

[nino_savatte]

I moved to Dublin last September, and am moving back to the UK next week.

Transport infrastructure is screwed, depsite the outward signs of heavy investment (lots of 'thanks to the EU for this road/bridge/railway' signs) and the Luas in Dublin. Excpet the two Luas lines don't intersect and the DART only runs North-south on the edge of the city. A joke. And don't start me on the traffic congestion.

The Health system is a joke. A very scary, not funny-at-all joke. I have to pay 50 euro each time I see a doctor. I have to pay for each of my drugs. Fair enough, except the Health Board won't see one of them as necessary and refuses to put it on the Drug Repayment Scheme (where they promise no-one, regardless of income, shall pay more than 85 euro in total a month for medication), so I have to pay full price for that and for the other two drugs I need - 130 euro A MONTH! In the UK, that would cover all my medication for a year. My health insurance costs 53 euro a month too.

My colleague's boyfriend had the misfortune to develop kidney stones a couple of weeks ago. After a trip to A&E he was told he would be given a hospital appointment - FOR JULY! The poor man was weeing blood He managed to get seen quicker only because he had been part of the build team for one of the local hospitals and managed to call in a favour with a consultant and a nurse. He's still waiting to hear when the treatment will be carried out, but they hope to do it over the next couple of months.

What you have described regarding public transport in Dublin tends to be repeated across the country. It seems as though, regardless of who is in power, that government is more concerned with providing superficialities; meaningless signs of progress. The Luas was trumpeted as a major innovation..."Look we're as modern as an other European city" but, as you say, the two lines don't intersect.

My daughter is talking about moving back to Ireland, I hope she changes her mind.

 

[nino_savatte]

Ireland's gay community likely to vote Labour or Green

I can quite understand it, really. The two main parties look ever so...conservative in their attitudes to society.

Ireland lesbian and gay voting intentions are as follows:

Labour 20%

Greens 16%

Fianna Fail 11%

Fine Gael 7%

Progressive Democrats 6%

Independent 3%

Sinn Fein 3%

Other party 1%

Will not vote 8%

Balance is non-response/don't know
http://www.pr.com/press-release/39264

 

[rekil]

Nice to see some debate on this here. I weep when I see the debates on Irish forums elsewhere... if you read it, you wonder if we are Thatcher's children...

Quite depressing isn't it. But it's 95% young males on the boards I'm thinking of, frustrated types are rather over represented I believe.

The PDs really have shown themselves to be the lunatic fringe. The 'Left wing Government? No Thanks' posters make no sense whatever. Although if you're far enough to the right, FG probably do look like reds. The shouting match between John Gormley and McDowell was amusing.

Eamonn Dunphy, Eoghan Harris and John Waters were on the late late last night. Dunphy said that Joe Higgins and Trevor Sargeant are the only ones in the Dail who rattle the government and he'll vote Green, which came as a shock to me. Harris claims that Labour will go in with FF, he was wrong about Iraq and he's wrong there. Waters sat on the fence like a good liberal.

I'm surprised that immigration is not an election issue given the way the citizenship referendum went, but Enda Kenny is the only party leader that wants to make it one.

 

[nino_savatte]

Quite depressing isn't it. But it's 95% young males on the boards I'm thinking of, frustrated types are rather over represented I believe.

The PDs really have shown themselves to be the lunatic fringe. The 'Left wing Government? No Thanks' posters make no sense whatever. Although if you're far enough to the right, FG probably do look like reds. The shouting match between John Gormley and McDowell was amusing.

I'm surprised that immigration is not an election issue given the way the citizenship referendum went, but Enda Kenny is the only party leader that wants to make it one.

Those are the tactics of desperation. But the PD's posters...what is so 'left wing' about FF or FG? FG were formed by former Blueshirts and ex Cumman nanGaedheal (sp?).

Trust Kenny to flourish the immigration card; it always plays well here, so there's probably no reason why it shouldn't play well in Ireland.

 

[lewislewis]

Nino have you got something against Ireland?

I know i'm a Welsh nationalist and everything but I don't think Ireland is a paradise. At the same time, your description of it is akin to a description of a hellhole.

One key change to Ireland is that now, Irish people can get a good job in their own country rather than having to move abroad. Ireland has been transformed from what it used to be.
Although, I wouldn't vote for Fianna Fail because they haven't done very well and haven't made the changes that are needed.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino have you got something against Ireland?

I know i'm a Welsh nationalist and everything but I don't think Ireland is a paradise. At the same time, your description of it is akin to a description of a hellhole.

One key change to Ireland is that now, Irish people can get a good job in their own country rather than having to move abroad. Ireland has been transformed from what it used to be.
Although, I wouldn't vote for Fianna Fail because they haven't done very well and haven't made the changes that are needed.

No, I don't "have anything against Ireland" and I don't know how you read that into my post. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to what I and other posters have said on this thread about the appalling state of the Irish health service, rural poverty and the broken down transport infrastructure.

The myth of the Celtic Tiger is just that: a myth. I go to Ireland quite a lot and I have family there, so I know what I'm talking about.

 

[lewislewis]

That's fine and I too visit Ireland regularly, at least twice every year.

Health and housing are the biggest problems in my view, rural poverty? As far as I can tell there hasn't been any rural poverty in Ireland (on any significant scale) since about 1999.
The rural transport network is a key issue as you have suggested...but if you visit Ireland regularly like me surely you've noticed how things, broadly, have improved?

Still, there needs to be change, the gap between rich and poor though narrower than the UK's gap, needs to be closed. Sinn Fein seems to be the only party offering the radical agenda that is needed to address these problems.