Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
when did this happen (original fluke, observation and reproduction)?ViolentPanda said:
what, no 'cops shot de menezes with dum dum bullets' thread?
- Thread starter Pickman's model
- Start date
Hollow points are used in these situations because, from what I've heard, they're better at killing with fewer shots. Apparently the US law enforcement agencies found that 9mm rounds were could be quite ineffective at killing a person instantly, they tended to go right through their target or didn't caouse enough damage. Hollowpoints on the other hand can stop almost instantly, or with fewer rounds. Which makes you sort of wonder why the fuzz used so many shots.... 
Bigdavalad
New Member
Random said:
And you're in court for illegally modifying ammunition
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
With semi-auto pistols, where the round has to feed from a magazine to the chamber, fully jacketed ammo was used very widely by police depts because it was thought to be less likely to cause feed problems (you really don't want to have to try clearing a jam in the middle of a firefight). So it wasn't to do with the calibre of the round (although that can be a factor) so much as the type of round used.peppery said:
I'd much rather have a revolver myself.
That's because of the way a "hollow point" round "mushrooms" after the initial penetration, small entry wound, large exit wound.
Whatever anyone claims, it wasn't because they were "making sure". A single "double tap" (two-shot burst) to the face would have done that.Which makes you sort of wonder why the fuzz used so many shots....
perhaps the "policeman" firing the rounds got a little *excited*?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Bigdavalad said:
That's if you're stupid enough to pinch live ammo in a vice and take a hacksaw to it.
Anyone with more sense than a kipper would make handloads and either cast their own slugs and score them, or mill a mould that would create score lines.
I just wandered in for a look at the thread so definitive that posting on another one on the same subject is a banning offence...
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3823287#post3823287
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3823287#post3823287
ViolentPanda said:That's if you're stupid enough to pinch live ammo in a vice and take a hacksaw to it.
.
Its not that difficult, just grab it in your hands and hit the end with a dremil tool, it would be perfectly safe.
But it would affect the ballance and spin of the bullet,if you don't want to reaload from scrats just use an impact bullet puller, and pull the bulet and put in one you like better.............
Yossarian said:I just wandered in for a look at the thread so definitive that posting on another one on the same subject is a banning offence...
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3823287#post3823287
Seems a bit harsh if that's the only thing they were banned for.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
pbman said:
That's why I specifically mentioned someone being stupid enough to clamp a round in a vice, peebs.
ViolentPanda said:
Even that isn't that dangerouse. Gun powder isn't a high explosive, like most people think.............
Anyways.
Frige nailed it in this thread, cops should use dum dums or hollow points or fragmenntable rounds............ as over penitration is a seriouse problem.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
There are several cases every year in the UK where kids find live rondson or near military ranges and decide to experiment with them, cinching them in a vice isn't advisable, and it's the cap I'm worried about rather than the powder.pbman said:
I've no problem with them using hp ammo, it's the hysteria where the press latched onto the "dum dum" thing that pisses me off, for the reasons I stated above.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
likesfish said:the reason the cops fired so many rounds is the best way to stop someone you belive is going to detonate a bomb is to keep shooting them till there dead even a double tap my give the target enough time to push the button.
A double tap into the face?
Any button pushing would be pure twitching of dead nerves, and the reason they shot him in and through the mouth was to disable the part of his brain that governs involuntary movement.
Given that the back of Mr de Menezes' skull would have been pretty much pulped by the first two rounds, firing more into the same site arguably caused a greater risk of richochet from the steel floor of the carriage that Mr de Menezes was lying on.
I think it's strange that most people who use firearms as part of their work are taught to use quick and clean methods, and yet we're being asked to believe that "Kratos" is allowing the use of unsafe methods.
Then again, I am a suspicious bastard, and Ian Blair is enough of a slimer to trigger my bullshit detectors before he even speaks.
Yossarian said:I just wandered in for a look at the thread so definitive that posting on another one on the same subject is a banning offence...
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3823287#post3823287
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
In the army modiyfing ammuntion is a chargeably offence .Wether its cutting top off round or drilling hole in it .Though normally i suppose anyone caught by your ownside would just get a slap for being an idiot .If caught by other side tradtional punishment is excution.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
i think the latest thinking on the subjuect is you keep firing as the impact of bullets force the targets arms out from the body so even a reflex would'nt set off the bomb .
imho its not what hardware they were using is important.
its the fact the whole sorry affair was a massive clusterfuck that had gone to hell before the shooters even arrived at the station if the bloke had been carrying a bomb they'd allowed him on a bus anyway
I doubt anyone can actually be held to blame.
shooters well they were told its a terrorist with a concealed suicide bomb
commaders while they only had the reports being fed to them by apprantly understaffed and over worked survilliance team
survillance team one bloke told to whatch a block of flats where there could be a terrorist hardly doing the job properly
.imho its not what hardware they were using is important.
its the fact the whole sorry affair was a massive clusterfuck that had gone to hell before the shooters even arrived at the station if the bloke had been carrying a bomb they'd allowed him on a bus anyway
I doubt anyone can actually be held to blame.
shooters well they were told its a terrorist with a concealed suicide bomb
commaders while they only had the reports being fed to them by apprantly understaffed and over worked survilliance team
survillance team one bloke told to whatch a block of flats where there could be a terrorist hardly doing the job properly
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
butchersapron said:
You are actually more likely to survive a hollow point round, it has less mass, therefore less energy than a solid round.
The attractiveness of hollow points is they don't exit the body and kill someone standing behind.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
they kill the first person they hit instead!Sasaferrato said:
ok - i'll get a gun with two bullets - one hollow point and one normal - and shoot you with both of them, at an interval of one month.
let's see if you survive either of them.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Sasaferrato said:
Although if you're unloading your magazine point-blank into someone's face a La the cops at Stockwell, then penetration may be a problem (as I said earlier) given that by the 2nd or 3rd shot you'll be firing into puree rather than flesh and bone..
Bigdavalad
New Member
Pickman's model said:they kill the first person they hit instead!
ok - i'll get a gun with two bullets - one hollow point and one normal - and shoot you with both of them, at an interval of one month.
let's see if you survive either of them.
With a normal 9mm bullet, you have a pretty good chance of surviving, as long as your not hit in the head or heart. With a hollow point, there's much less chance of surviving - that's why a lot of armed forces have adopted 10mm H&K MP5s and other pistols rather than the original 9mm versions, as are many US police forces - 9mm rounds are very underpowered and unreliable against drugged up targets that the police often face (and US forces say they are now facing in Iraq).
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