What is your strategy for political change?

[Gmart]

What's the difference? Are you joking? A list of things you'd like to see happen is a list of things that you'd like to see happen. A strategy is a collection of methods, practices and initiatives whereby you attempt to achieve those aims. See the difference?

You say tomato still either choice does much the same in a democracy where the answer 'start a party then', or 'you've got a vote haven't you' stops any popular call to arms.

With the police to stamp on anyone who decides to turn to violence, with the army as back up... that is the British way. An 'elected dictatorship' is how Hailsham described it. A United Kingdom of way too many different groups of people living the compromise which is life, to effect actual change except very slowly.

Every era thinks that the world is going to the dogs, the kids have no respect...

I suppose the breakdown of the union might usher in the only ones who might be able to motivate the people, the BNP, but even that will be destroyed by the breakup of the union.

 

[butchersapron]

I say strategy, you say list. They are not just slightly different ways of saying the same thing.

Not interested in the rest of your post. It's just bizzare grumbling really.

 

[Gmart]

You're not interested in anyone's POV other than your own...

My 'strategy' ie using democracy to bring about the changes in my list is very relevant. For example council tax hasn't been fit for purpose for nigh on 15 years, yet you would rather argue with me over the word strategy rather than consider that we might agree.

You might feel that your attitude of non-engagement will change the world, however I feel that your attitude is what keeps us from achieving any change at all! Your ego won't let you agree with me so you disengage which is what the elites want us to do. Don't cooperate with each other, fight amongst yourselves! And sadly that's what we do...

Your inability to understand my previous post confuses me. You seem relatively intelligent, so feel free to ask about anything you don't understand (if your ego will let you).

 

[tbaldwin]

Populism is the only way forward.
That and a 50% tax on all advertising/sponsorship.

 

[chilango]

Strategy... the trots et al do at least have one...though it won't work. How do the rest of us translate our lists of what would be nice into concrete possibilities?

 

[tbaldwin]

Strategy... the trots et al do at least have one...though it won't work. How do the rest of us translate our lists of what would be nice into concrete possibilities?

I think your right. I know someone soon will come up with that quote from Solidarity some anarcho group of the 60s or 70s...Whcih was something like any activity which increases the confidence of etc etc....Help me out Butchers......

But i believe that the best hope for real change is gradual,slow but sustainable. Arguements for extending democracy are important.

The old trot left look more and more like dinosaurs who want to impose their views on people.
Any new Left wing strategy has to be about extending not limiting democracy.

 

[butchersapron]

Meaningful action, for revolutionaries, is whatever increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification. Sterile and harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of the masses, their apathy, their cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them and the degree to which they can therefore be manipulated by others - even by those allegedly acting on their behalf.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2379/solie.htm

 

[bluestreak]

1. Get smart enough to see that things are wrong.
2. Bitch about it on the internet, hand out leaflets, discuss at length the rights and wrongs of revolution through violence.
3. ?????
4. Profit.

 

[tbaldwin]

Meaningful action, for revolutionaries, is whatever increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification. Sterile and harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of the masses, their apathy, their cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them and the degree to which they can therefore be manipulated by others - even by those allegedly acting on their behalf.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2379/solie.htm

I thought i could rely on you for that cheers.

I do think its preety good. Even though i would never call meself a revolutionary.

But a lot of so called revolutionaries, do seem to have a problem with their own hierarchies. I dont wish to single the SWP out too much but i do think sometimes they reinforce the passivity of people.

 

[chilango]

Meaningful action, for revolutionaries, is whatever increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self -activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification. Sterile and harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of the masses, their apathy, their cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them and the degree to which they can therefore be manipulated by others - even by those allegedly acting on their behalf.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2379/solie.htm

Great statement. And one that influenced me way back...

...but

a) I think referring to "the masses" is unhelpful.

b) Its still not really a strategy, is it? Its just a nice statement.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I suppose the breakdown of the union might usher in the only ones who might be able to motivate the people, the BNP, but even that will be destroyed by the breakup of the union.

What exactly are you saying here? It is one thing to misunderstand the difference between political aspirations and strategies for achieving change, but quite another to suggest the BNP as being of any merit whatsoever.

 

[tbaldwin]

1. Get smart enough to see that things are wrong.
2. Bitch about it on the internet, hand out leaflets, discuss at length the rights and wrongs of revolution through violence.
3. ?????
4. Profit.

I think the thing a lot of left politics does is exactly that. And it doesnt seem to work too well. I think instead of saying everything is wrong blah blah blah. You instead need to say what could be better and how it could be better.
A bit more practical solutions if you like. Instead of trying to get people to be miserable about the here and now, what about getting them to be positive about the differences that could be made.

 

[Prince Rhyus]

While some are thinking, others are doing.

http://www.spongenet.org/index.php

 

[Kenny Vermouth]

Assuming you believe change is neccessary, how do you think it can be achieved?

By voting Conservative.

 

[poster342002]

By voting Conservative.

They'll dismantle the neoconservative, freemarket-capitalist manufactured consensus, then will they?

Fuck me! Waddaya know!?

 

[chilango]

By voting Conservative.

what will they change?