What is your strategy for political change?

[Gmart]

since you asked...

sounds like the return of the Rates.

Doesn't need to be, could be an update based on square metrage as well as land value.

decentralise institutions while centralising power.

Trust the population and they will become trustworthy

triffic. the CEOs can compete for the very best clients.

Voucher system would mean schools would compete for numbers of children by improving their service

because you know exactly the best way to do that? Does 'effective' mean 'to deliver the results you want'?

No, it means having an effective debate about it rather than sweeping it under the carpet. A second chamber preferably elected by PR would be my preference.

is it not already part of the NC?

It is not.

wooee. squeeze future generations into a straightjacket designed today, enforced forever by the judges?

Use our brains to create a flexible system for ourselves

cos that's more important than redistribution of wealth, an 'ethical' foreign policy or sustainable energy?

Errr no!

 

[fractionMan]

I find sitting at home smoking spliffs and posting crap on message boards works* for me.

*for a given definition of 'works'

 

[newbie]

fair enough. I suppose the point is not to quibble about individual ideas but to highlight that we'll all see policy differently, and any strategy for change has to accommodate that. In these days of consultation panels and questionnaires, official petitions, opinion polls and focus groups (which would have seemed highly desirable not so long ago) we're still powerless in the face of corporations and politicians. Specific policies don't matter, what matters is how we get to express what we want.

 

[kyser_soze]

Shoot everyone.

 

[Gmart]

fair enough. I suppose the point is not to quibble about individual ideas but to highlight that we'll all see policy differently, and any strategy for change has to accommodate that. In these days of consultation panels and questionnaires, official petitions, opinion polls and focus groups (which would have seemed highly desirable not so long ago) we're still powerless in the face of corporations and politicians. Specific policies don't matter, what matters is how we get to express what we want.

Reasonable attitude on U75 alert!!!

Quick someone do something

 

[muckypup]

Creating public spaces for open debate which would among other things start with defining freedom and democracy in quite some depth.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Socialists have argued for the abolition of council tax and it's replacement with a local service tax based on income that is steeply progressive - people under £11,000 a year would be exempt from paying the tax, while the rich would pay a lot more (The libdems have put forward a scheme for a local service tax but not based on taxing the rich heavilly, and when in power in Scotland voted against a motion for the abolition of council tax put forward by Tommy Sheridan)

The SSP have a good summary of how a local service tax would work:
http://www.scottishsocialistparty.org/servicetax/cthome.html

With council tax rising everywhere, activists should now start demanding the abolition of council tax - an obscene, regressive tax where a millionaire can pay a lower proportion of income than a single mother in a council flat.

 

[tbaldwin]

Redistribution of wealth and power nationally,internationally and locally.

In the UK that means arguing against minority power and privellege in the judiciary, education system and the media.

 

[chilango]

Redistribution of wealth and power nationally,internationally and locally.

In the UK that means arguing against minority power and privellege in the judiciary, education system and the media.

How would you do this?

What do you (can we) do to advance this now?

 

[tbaldwin]

How would you do this?

What do you (can we) do to advance this now?

The only way to advance it in the here and now would be to promote the ideas of extending democracy as far as possible.

Obviously that means looking at unaccountable and elitist institutions. Like the Judiciary and Education system.

 

[Spion]

rank and file organisation(s), a working class party, workers councils, workers control, destruction of state power by the former, abolition of private property, democratic planning of production

 

[brasicritique]

rank and file organisation(s), a working class party, workers councils, workers control, destruction of state power by the former, abolition of private property, democratic planning of production

psalm 7 page 52 our lord o marx....

 

[electric.avenue]

A sensible answer to my own question....

I think that education is very important.

Educating people to educate themselves if you like.

That can be done via campaigns, via political groups, via action, via school, the WEA etc.

Knowledge is, as they say, power.

...and the abilty to engage with the world around you.

And then, and then, people, individuals, communities, workplaces etc. can start to try and shape the conditions of their lives.

Some of which can be done through self-organisation and mutual aid. Some through negotiation with authority, some through confrontation with authority and ultimately through the abolition/replacement of authority.

In practical terms this means learning and grassroots organisation. Vehicles for this are many and varied.

Sounds good.

Where do I join?

 

[electric.avenue]

I am entirely serious. The quickest route to serious social and political change can be facilitated by wiping out a good percentage of the ruling clarses.

I haven't got the stomach for it, but someone must be capable *looks around for rutheless cunts* oh they're to busy pursuing right wing ideologies

But where do you start and where do you end? Once you unleash the psychopaths you'll prolly end up with something like Cambodia.

I think the "kill 'em" option is stupid and dangerous. You'll prolly end up by just replacing one form of tyranny with another.

 

[Dillinger4]

But where do you start and where do you end? Once you unleash the psychopaths you'll prolly end up with something like Cambodia.

I think the "kill 'em" option is stupid and dangerous. You'll prolly end up by just replacing one form of tyranny with another.

You know he is not serious, right?

Well, mostly not serious.

 

[Dillinger4]

.

 

[newbie]

rank and file organisation(s), a working class party, workers councils, workers control, destruction of state power by the former, abolition of private property, democratic planning of production

 

[LLETSA]

rank and file organisation(s), a working class party, workers councils, workers control, destruction of state power by the former, abolition of private property, democratic planning of production

For all it's unfeasibility, this is the only contribution that in any way resembles a strategy.

A strategy is not a loose collection of notions, let alone a list of merely subjective desires.

 

[Gmart]

What was wrong with my list then? Thought I covered a lot which was very relevant...

 

[Dillinger4]

It was shit.

 

[Gmart]

Abolishment of council tax
Effective land tax to ensure landowners are taxed fairly along with everyone else
Decentralisation of institutions away from London
Mayors for all cities, towns and villages.
Independence for all schools and hospitals
Effective reform of the House of Lords.
critical thinking taught in schools (agree wih LLETSA etc here)
A written constitution
Phonetic spelling optional
Legalisation of all drugs
Legalisation of brothels

That'll do to begin with then maybe a period of adjustment, a few cups of tea maybe...

Shit eh? Like to elaborate? So you don't want council tax abolished and replaced with a better land tax? Or decentralisation? Or mayors? Or Decent reform of HOL? A written constitution would seem obvious, but you think that's a shit idea too? and legalisation of drugs/brothels?

So I take it you like the way things are...

I mean some of my ideas are a bit leftfield, but at least I'm putting into the debate, rather than just sitting on the fence shooting down other people's ideas...

 

[butchersapron]

What was wrong with my list then? Thought I covered a lot which was very relevant...

It's a list of things not a strategy.

 

[Gmart]

It's a list of things not a strategy.

What's the difference? Both have lists of things that need to be done...

 

[Dillinger4]

There is quite a massive difference between a list and a strategy.

A list is not even a tactic. Its just an assemblage of ideas you happen to like.

 

[butchersapron]

What's the difference? Are you joking? A list of things you'd like to see happen is a list of things that you'd like to see happen. A strategy is a collection of methods, practices and initiatives whereby you attempt to achieve those aims. See the difference?

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I think that the OP was an important question. What it asks is how do we go about taking power from those who have it now. It has been misconstrued to mean a list of political manifesto ideas.

How do we go about shifting power from those who control it now to bring it into the hands of the people? Other than by using force, is there some way of persuasion or propagation of ideas to obtain control over the forces that rule our lives?

The old question of Reform or Revolution seems to have been left behind now that there are no Reformist parties in the existing parliamentary system. What next? Can there be a revolution without massive loss of life among the very people to whom power is to be given as its result?

 

[yield]

How do we go about shifting power from those who control it now to bring it into the hands of the people? Other than by using force, is there some way of persuasion or propagation of ideas to obtain control over the forces that rule our lives?

The ruling class will not freely give up their titles and privileges.

 

[DotCommunist]

The ruling class will not freely give up their titles and privileges.

 

[ska invita]

coalition - strength in numbers?

Something I would like to see, and this is all a bit sketchy in mind at present, is an attempt at a 'direct action coalition' of as many willing British groups, to come together and fight on a winnable issue that may be outside the groups normal sphere of action.

How?

It would go something like this: have an open invitation to groups of 'the left' to take part in the coalition. Ballot each group to nominate, lets say 3 possible campaigns that they consider winnable. Produce a short-list of those that have come up the most. Then ballot the coalition to tick up to, say 5 campaigns that they feel they could get behind on principle. See which campaign issue comes out on top and is supported by the majority, and then invite everyone in the country to focus and mobilise on winning that camapign.

This wouldn't have to be at the expense of any groups day-to-day business - it would take up a smaller proportion of that groups time. It would allow all the endless isms and schisms that is the left in Britian to work together in solidarity on one campaign - and crucially for 'the left' in the Britain, to win, and be seen to win.

Also, lets say the campaign chosen was an issue on council housing - wouldnt it be nice to see all the specialist niche groups, and across a spectrum of political positions, come together to fight on one anothers behalf? Yes, our country going to war can pull us together, but why shouldn't a smaller, internal campaign?

There are so many campaigns going on at any moment, and so many 'campaigners' spread thinly across them that nothing really gets done properly. Lets pick one campaign and lets pull together to win it!

Problems

Coalitions are fragile and complex things - but there are steps that could be taken to make a very loose umbrella style coalition like this work, by setting simple goals, having an anarchic, co-op style constitution in its make up, etc.

There are problems - how to work out who is allowed in or not is a problem - STWC being a case in point. Cant say Ive got all the answers to this, but a relatively open door policy should be allowed. Perhaps you could draw some broad lines - say no group with an openly religious affiliation, or no groups with a direct link to a political party...

It isnt the answer to everything, but I think something like this would be a usefull excercise in reinvigorating groups, building momentum, and hopefully bolstering allegiances. What dyou think? Am I being naive here?

 

[Hocus Eye.]

ska invita

So far so good, you speak of direct action and of selecting an issue. If the selected issue came to be council housing for example, what form could the direct action take in order to solve the problem of the shortage of council houses? Suppose we had mass support for such action throughout the country or our sphere of influence what would be actually do? I am not being negative here, it is a genuine question.