what is your gut reaction to Obama?

[isitme]

he's very handsome is my first reaction

 

[DotCommunist]

Um, Americans brought a colonialism mindset from Great Britain, so you could prolly change the "they've" to "we've"...

yes, but the sense of 'innocence' and ideals of the american way are/were supposed to be in direct contrast to jaded old Evil Empire mark one (britain)

you cling to it even as you repeat evry damned mistake we ever made and a make a load more. It's tragic, and I mean that genuinly

 

[Stoat Boy]

As a right winger its obvious to me that Obama has something about him which could lead to him becoming US President. His presentation skills are good and I feel that whilst I would never vote for him if a US citizen I would not be that worried about him being President.

But I dont think now is the time. I feel that he is the ultimate 'token' choice for many on the left who seem to have mistaken his colour for an ability to really affect the sort of changes they seem to espouse. Now I was always of the 'anybody but Hilary' persuasion but I was surprised at how many on the left seemed so keen to switch support from her to Obama because she is by far the more radical of the two and I can only put this down to somesort of leftie feel good factor they get by supporting by backing the black guy.

 

[Belushi]

Um, Americans brought a colonialism mindset from Great Britain, so you could prolly change the "they've" to "we've"...

I would but I dont ever recall talk of Britains 'innocence', do you?

 

[nino_savatte]

yea, americans learned how to oppress from the masters, the british

god save the queen

Eh?

 

[girasol]

I'm really hopeful although I shouldn't really be.

Look at happened in the Brazil - that should have taught me the lesson once and for all: power corrupts and it's just too difficult to really change things these days.

Having said that I think that if Obama wins America will have some credibility restored (at least at first) and that can only be a good thing.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But I dont think now is the time. I feel that he is the ultimate 'token' choice for many on the left who seem to have mistaken his colour for an ability to really affect the sort of changes they seem to espouse. Now I was always of the 'anybody but Hilary' persuasion but I was surprised at how many on the left seemed so keen to switch support from her to Obama because she is by far the more radical of the two and I can only put this down to somesort of leftie feel good factor they get by supporting by backing the black guy.

Could you take us through a few specifics that have led you to this conclusion? First, what are the changes that those on the 'left' wish to see that Clinton was espousing and Obama not?

Also, please clarify what you mean by 'I don't think now is the time'. The time for what?

 

[Gromit]

Whether he'd make a good or a bad president i'd like him to be president just cause he is black.

I know everyone else doesn't want an election based on race and i don't either.

But having a black man as president even for just one turn would kickstart a massive (albeit gradual) change in racial attitudes in the US and one that is sorely needed.

 

[DotCommunist]

But I dont think now is the time.

time for what stoat boy? you don't think now is the time for a black man to be POTUS?

I feel that he is the ultimate 'token' choice for many on the left who seem to have mistaken his colour for an ability to really affect the sort of changes they seem to espouse. Now I was always of the 'anybody but Hilary' persuasion but I was surprised at how many on the left seemed so keen to switch support from her to Obama because she is by far the more radical of the two and I can only put this down to somesort of leftie feel good factor they get by supporting by backing the black guy.

As far as I've read the thread, everyone seems to think that he'll be just the same as democrats before him, still part of the superrich power elite. I think you're blindly rejecting him because he's black and not right wing while projecting your own colour based decision making faculties onto the fabled left whom you cannot define but hate so much

 

[London_Calling]

Whether he'd make a good or a bad president i'd like him to be president just cause he is black. I know everyone else doesn't want an election based on race and i don't either. But having a black man as president even for just one turn would kickstart a massive (albeit gradual) change in racial attitudes in the US and one that is sorely needed.

I doubt at least one of his grandmother's considers him 'black'. Perhaps that how it plays for some so it's probably a relevant angle but, as a point of fact, he is of 'mixed heritage'.


On the wider point, in relation to foreign policy the only difference between Dem's and Republican's in recent exection has been tone - both are equally committed to imperial strategies. Bush has been noteworthy for his exceptional pro-activity and a return to more conventional inperial projection should not be seen as significant - Bush is the exception, not Obama or McCain.

In general though, Obama and McCain; it's the same corporate choice funded by the same corporations - as usual it's Pepsi or Coke.

 

[Belushi]

I doubt at least one of his grandmother's considers him 'black'. Perhaps that how it plays for some so it's probably a relevant angle but, as a point of fact, he is of 'mixed heritage'.

Black is how he describes himself and thats good enough for me.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

to get where he is he is no different from anyone of them...

he will not be radical, he will not change america, he will not stop the excessive use of oil, sort out pollution or forgien policy, he is nothing short of plasma tv in a world of lcd's... a little more advanced but in reality does exaclty the same job as the old one, the image is that little bit nicer...

 

[Yossarian]

Whether he'd make a good or a bad president i'd like him to be president just cause he is black.

I know everyone else doesn't want an election based on race and i don't either.

But having a black man as president even for just one turn would kickstart a massive (albeit gradual) change in racial attitudes in the US and one that is sorely needed.

I doubt having a black man as president is going to make many racist people less racist - especially not if a recession hits the US during his term in power etc. and the president gets the blame.

 

[Yossarian]

I doubt at least one of his grandmother's considers him 'black'. Perhaps that how it plays for some so it's probably a relevant angle but, as a point of fact, he is of 'mixed heritage'.

In the US, people of mixed heritage are generally described as 'black'.

 

[butchersapron]

Black is how he describes himself and thats good enough for me.

The one-drop rule.

 

[London_Calling]

Black is how he describes himself and thats good enough for me.

Actually, to correct myself, his mother was white and his father black.

You're welcome to accept anyone's characterisation of anything.

I believe, at least in this country, convention would decree him of mixed heritage, for whatever that's worth. But I was just pointing it out in case you didn't know - you do and, for you, he's black because he says he is.

 

[Belushi]

The one-drop rule.

Yes, his white mum wouldnt have stopped him being considered 'black' in the days of slavery, of segregation, of lynchings; yet as soon as he might become President...

 

[Gromit]

I doubt having a black man as president is going to make many racist people less racist - especially not if a recession hits the US during his term in power etc. and the president gets the blame.

Thats why its a gradual change. Its the opinion of younger and future generations that will change. Can future patriotic americans view all blacks as inferior when their great nation was once run by one?

 

[Yossarian]

Actually, to correct myself, his mother was white and his father black.

You're welcome to accept anyone's characterisation of anything.

I believe, at least in this country, convention would decree him of mixed heritage, for whatever that's worth. But I was just pointing it out in case you didn't know - you do and, for you, he's black because he says he is.

In this country, if somebody's of mixed heritage, chances are it's simply because their parents or grandparents happen to come from different ethnic groups. In the US, if somebody's of mixed heritage, chances are it's because they have one or more slave-owning rapists in their family tree so I think it's a good move to make black an inclusive word rather than going with mixed-race or 'quadroon' or similar...

 

[Darios]

In the US, if somebody's of mixed heritage, chances are it's because they have one or more slave-owning rapists in their family tree

Jesus wept.

 

[Gromit]

Jesus wept.

Hes not wrong though. It happened a lot.

 

[London_Calling]

In the US, if somebody's of mixed heritage, chances are it's because they have one or more slave-owning rapists in their family tree so I think it's a good move to make black an inclusive word rather than going with mixed-race or 'quadroon' or similar...

Viewed from 2-3 generations ago, a good cultural point, though I suppose anyone who came to the UK from the West Indies would be in a not dissimilar similar position.

Trying to catergorise in this way is absurd, of course.

 

[Yossarian]

Trying to catergorise in this way is absurd, of course.

Yep, agree with that...

 

[Stoat Boy]

time for what stoat boy? you don't think now is the time for a black man to be POTUS?

I dont think its time for this black man to be the President.

As far as I've read the thread, everyone seems to think that he'll be just the same as democrats before him, still part of the superrich power elite. I think you're blindly rejecting him because he's black and not right wing while projecting your own colour based decision making faculties onto the fabled left whom you cannot define but hate so much

I will accept that I am blindly rejecting him because he is not right wing but the colour thing does not bother me in the slightest. I like to think that its all about the politics as far as casting my own vote goes and my own prejudice would be more about religion rather than colour. A Black Christian, or even Jewish, would not bother me but I confess that I might find a Muslim, of any shade, a bit hard to stomach for all sorts of reasons. But thats just me and if push came to shove I am sure that I would still tick the Right wing box rather than anything on the left.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A Black Christian, or even Jewish, would not bother me but I confess that I might find a Muslim, of any shade, a bit hard to stomach for all sorts of reasons.

What religion is 'Black Christian', please?

Or even Jewish, eh? How big of you.

 

[zoltan]

to get where he is he is no different from anyone of them...

he will not be radical, he will not change america, he will not stop the excessive use of oil, sort out pollution or forgien policy, he is nothing short of plasma tv in a world of lcd's... a little more advanced but in reality does exaclty the same job as the old one, the image is that little bit nicer...

I fail to see how anyone with an indepdendant perspective, a gramme of sense & even the most basic grasp of US politics can legitimately disagree with This ^^^^^

 

[Gromit]

I disagree. Give me Clinton over Bush any day. Oh why Bill did you have to touch that munter? America was starting to build a decent foreign policy for once and recognize global responsabilties outside of it's own economic interests.

 

[Stoat Boy]

I disagree. Give me Clinton over Bush any day. Oh why Bill did you have to touch that munter? America was starting to build a decent foreign policy for once and recognize global responsabilties outside of it's own economic interests.

Clinton ? You mean the man who bombed a baby milk factory ? The man who ordered the bombing of Serbia to distract attention from his own domestic problems ? Shall I go on ?

 

[poului]

34f6rufjgy65

Even the Bush administration have the common decency to at least acknowledge mass genocides.

 

[frogwoman]

Clinton ? You mean the man who bombed a baby milk factory ? The man who ordered the bombing of Serbia to distract attention from his own domestic problems ? Shall I go on ?

This. fuck clinton.

However -

I will accept that I am blindly rejecting him because he is not right wing but the colour thing does not bother me in the slightest. I like to think that its all about the politics as far as casting my own vote goes and my own prejudice would be more about religion rather than colour. A Black Christian, or even Jewish, would not bother me but I confess that I might find a Muslim, of any shade, a bit hard to stomach for all sorts of reasons. But thats just me and if push came to shove I am sure that I would still tick the Right wing box rather than anything on the left.