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What is the story with this Nursery rhyme

yeah but by that reckoning your leaving yourself open to the PC brigade where ANYTHING can be offensive.
It's just political correctness gone mad, isn't it?
I prefer the common sense route
Which is whatever you and your retarded* brother in law think it is?

If my Welsh brother in law goes to bussiness meetings showing off his car with TAF5Y as the number plate proud as punch, then common sense tells me theres not much derogative about the term
First of all, 'derogative' isn't a word. It's 'derogatory'.
Secondly, anyone with a personalised number plate shouldn't be trusted on matters of taste and decency.
Thirdly, even if he could be trusted, there's a clear and obvious difference between someone in a group who the word is applied to using that word, and someone from outside that group using it. See use of the word 'queer' by gay people, and use of the word 'nigga' by black people - all very different to the use of those words by straight white folk.

*Just so you don't think I'm from the PC brigade
 
If my Welsh brother in law goes to bussiness meetings showing off his car with TAF5Y as the number plate proud as punch

then common sense tells me theres not much derogative about the term
So when you hear a black rapper using the word "nigger" that means that it's just dandy for you to start singing derogatory songs at him peppered with the same word, yes?

Jeez. What a fucking idiot.
 
no need to call me an idiot or slag off my brother in law. especially when he can't defend himself

whats more I've said that I now realise the term Taff is a pejorative word.

But if you lot wanna ignore that then carry on, who's not fucking listening now???

At least I can read other peoples posts, take them on board and admit that I was wrong. I don't result to slagging off your members of your family when they're not here to defend themselves FFS guys he's been called 'retarded' thats bang out of order. Slagging me off is one thing but refering to my family as 'retarded' is low!!!

and your calling me the idiot!


BTW derogative IS a word
 
no need to call me an idiot or slag off my brother in law. especially when he can't defend himself

whats more I've said that I now realise the term Taff is a pejorative word.

But if you lot wanna ignore that then carry on, who's not fucking listening now???

At least I can read other peoples posts, take them on board and admit that I was wrong. I don't result to slagging off your members of your family when they're not here to defend themselves FFS guys he's been called 'retarded' thats bang out of order. Slagging me off is one thing but refering to my family as 'retarded' is low!!!

and your calling me the idiot!


BTW derogative IS a word
Is retarded a derogative word?
 
Whats your point?

I already accept that Taff/Taffy is Pejorative. So why call a member of my Family retarded??
llantwit said:
Which is whatever you and your retarded* brother in law think it is?
<snip>
*Just so you don't think I'm from the PC brigade

try reading it a few times s-l-o-w-l-y
or ask an older person to explain it to you:)
 
We are one of the most constantly patronised peoples ever. That's what centuries of hanging on England's apron strings has done for us. It's about time for Adam Price to take over and win independence.
 
TAFFY IS A WELSHMAN

Taffy is a Welshman, Taffy is no thief. Someone came to Taffy's house and stole a leg of beef.

Taffy made no protest, for he doesn't like a row, so the someone called on him again and stole the bloody cow.

They stole his coal and iron, they stole his pastures, too. They even stole his language and flushed it down the loo.

Taffy is a Welshman, Taffy is a fool. Taffy voted no, no, no when they offered him home rule.

Six days a week upon his knees Taffy dug for coal. On the seventh he was kneeling, too, praying for his soul.

And now the mines are closing down and chapel's had its day, Taffy still lives upon his knees, for he knows no other way.

Now sometimes Taffy's brother will start a row or so, but you can bank on Taffy: he doesn't want to know.

For when they hanged Penderyn he had nothing much to say, and when Saunders Lewis went to jail he looked the other way.

Taffy is a Welshman who likes to be oppressed. He was proud to tug his forelock to a Crawshay or a Guest.

They give him tinsel royals, so he has a pint of beer, and sings God Bless the Prince of Wales as he joins the mob to cheer.

Now Taffy is a fighter when he hears the bugle call. Name any war since Agincourt: Taffy's seen them all.

He's fought in France and Germany and many another land; he's fought by sea and fought by air and fought on desert sand.

He's fought for many a foreign flag in many a foreign part, for Taffy is a Welshman, proud of his fighting heart.

He's fought the wide world over, he's given blood and bone. He's fought for every bloody cause except his bloody own.


Alun Rees, 2005


Shit thread, btw;)
 
Whats your point?

I already accept that Taff/Taffy is Pejorative. So why call a member of my Family retarded??

Did I just land in the playground?
Alright, fair enough. The use of the 'R' word might have been out of order.
But it was said with irony, really, and wasn't meant to be personal in the way you suggest - you were coming across quite foolish, and your seemingly un-ironic use of hackneyed arguments invoking 'the PC brigade' and 'common sense' mark you out as fair game for some heavy ribbing in my book.
Of course I don't think you're brother in law is a retard. Why should I? I've never met him. Get over it.
 
It's nothing to do with where you or I come from, your just a prick full stop.

I'm surrounded by the Welsh, close Family and work colleagues.

I'll be memorising the song to sing to my welsh friends/Family in return for the Joshing they give me when we lose at Rugby.

they will take it in the jest that it is meant in, because they are good people.

your a cock and will take it badly coz you can, Nothing to be with you being Welsh more to do with you being a knob.

BTW. I'll let you have the last word, coz I know you really want it
:)
 
The difference is that he can call himself that if he wants. Same as some Asian kids have taken to calling each other pakis.

It's entirely different if someone else uses the term. The recipient decides if they find loaded, derogatory terms offensive - not the person using them.

:)
 
In between internetstalker's thread shitting I got some good information. I'm glad my instincts are still sound.

Is there any rational reason why the Welsh are stereotyped by the English as 'dishonest' or is it just the usual dominant culture keeping another culture subdominant by subjugation through humiliation by generalisation?
 
The chant was still being used in a derogatory way as recently as the C20th, in response to Lloyd George's National Insurance Bill of 1911.

After the Budget of 1909 David Lloyd George did not rest and in 1911 he brought his National Insurance Bill before the House. It was a measure intended to establish compulsory health and unemployment insurance schemes. It attracted much opposition from those with vested interests, from some on the left, and especially from the right. One aspect of the protest was an anti-stamp licking campaign which reached its climax with a Mistresses and Maids rally at the Albert Hall. After shouting "We won't pay!" and "Taffy is a Welshman, Taffy is a thief!", the rally culminated in a speech by Lady Desart where she attacked Lloyd George violently and finished with her rallying cry, "England ... never did nor never shall lie at the proud foot of a conqueror." The measure was passed and became law and was implemented in the following years.

From here

LOL at 'Mistresses and Maids rally'. The mind boggles:)
 
Merely that there is no rational reason that I know of for the English to stereotype us as dishonest, and therefore the only conclusion must be that the origins of 'Taffy Was a Welshman' must lie in 'subjugation by humiliation through generalisation' as you so appositely put it.

A similar theme can be found in the infamous Treachery of the Blue Books . The Blue Books were a report into the state of education in Wales conducted by three English commisioners in 1847. Wiki tells us that they

concluded that the Welsh were ignorant, lazy and immoral, and that among the causes of this were the use of the Welsh language and nonconformity

The theme of being racially immoral seems to have surfaced repeatedly; from Taffy was a Welshman, through the Blue Books and to the (still current) use of the word 'Welch' to denote failure to pay a gambling debt,
 
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