what is the difference between free-will and self-control?

[bluestreak]

Has anyone ever noticed how cool the wallpaper looks? I've never realised it before but it's completely alive, so pretty. We should get more wallpaper and put it everywhere and then the prettyness will completely take over and it will be the best thing ever.

 

[max_freakout]

no. its just choice.

if you choose not to excersise self-control, what would happen? what would you do?

 

[jonH]

if you choose not to excersise self-control, what would happen? what would you do?

epilepsy?

 

[max_freakout]

epilepsy?

but nobody chooses epilepsy, this would have to be a choice

 

[blueplume]

no. its just choice.

Sometimes I want to control myself and just cannot, why?

 

[Cheesypoof]

Sometimes I want to control myself and just cannot, why?

cos you have free will.

 

[Dillinger4]

Sometimes I want to control myself and just cannot, why?

Because you are useless?

 

[Jonti]

Why do you assume that common English words deconstruct deep psychological categories in a philosophically coherent way?

There's some clear examples where words don't do much analysis, but rather just project crude mechanistic/organisational notions onto the psyche. Like id, ego and superego, for example. So what makes you think that "will" and "self" are labels for coherent notions?

 

[Cheesypoof]

Why do you assume that common English words deconstruct deep psychological categories in a philosophically coherent way?

There's some clear examples where words don't do much analysis, but rather just project crude mechanistic/organisational notions onto the psyche. Like id, ego and superego, for example. So what makes you think that "will" and "self" are labels for coherent notions?

all you have is intuition.

 

[Dillinger4]

all you have is intuition.

Really?

 

[jonH]

Really?

naturally

 

[selamlar]

They are two different concepts.

Yes.

Now whats the difference between apples and oranges?

 

[danny la rouge]

Yes.

Now whats the difference between apples and oranges?

And does me posting on this thread mean I don't have either?

 

[max_freakout]

Why do you assume that common English words deconstruct deep psychological categories in a philosophically coherent way?

i assume that the terms 'self-control' and 'free-will' both refer to something coherent

 

[max_freakout]

Sometimes I want to control myself and just cannot, why?

perhaps because the 'self' cannot be both controller and controlled


'I want to control myself' is equivalent to 'my self wants to control myself'

 

[selamlar]

And does me posting on this thread mean I don't have either?

Its a bit like picking a scab, I find. You know you shouldn't, it hurts, it could get all runny and drop off etc, but still you do it.

 

[danny la rouge]

perhaps because the 'self' cannot be both controller and controlled

Why not?

 

[jonH]

Why not?

why do you ask that?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Affirmative captain.

Indeed, Lee's Jesus brought to mind Max's lofty, faux-enigmatic and ultimately meaningless posts.

I can see why.

 

[Dillinger4]

.

 

[jonH]

that's drugs

 

[ViolentPanda]

Has anyone ever noticed how cool the wallpaper looks? I've never realised it before but it's completely alive, so pretty. We should get more wallpaper and put it everywhere and then the prettyness will completely take over and it will be the best thing ever.

Ah, an early entry for the 2008 end-of-year "best Chesney impersonation" award.

 

[Jonti]

i assume that the terms 'self-control' and 'free-will' both refer to something coherent

But why?

Do you have any reasons or any evidence for assuming that the terms 'self-control' and 'free-will' both refer to something coherent?

 

[max_freakout]

Why not?

controlled and controlling are opposites

 

[max_freakout]

But why?

Do you have any reasons or any evidence for assuming that the terms 'self-control' and 'free-will' both refer to something coherent?

the fact that they are both commonly used terms

 

[Jonti]

Can you not think of any commonly used terms that do not refer to anything coherent?

Hint: look up the word energy in a thesaurus.

 

[fractionMan]

controlled and controlling are opposites

No they're not. They're not mutually exclusive either.

Controlled and Uncontrolled are opposites.

Another example:
Employed and Employing vs employed and unemployed

 

[danny la rouge]

controlled and controlling are opposites

No they aren't. Controlled and uncontrolled are opposites.

The fact that you've chosen an unusual way of putting things doesn't make it a paradox. You say 'I want to control myself' is equivalent to 'my self wants to control myself'.

Someone who drives a car is in effect driving themselves. We wouldn't normally put it that way, but there's nothing paradoxical about it.

 

[max_freakout]

being a controller, and being controlled, are opposites

being the controller = being uncontrolled


if the chief of police is trying to catch an arsonist, what good is it if the chief of pollice IS the arsonist

 

[butchersapron]

We spent 1000 posts trying to get him to understand this last month.