Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
not only is that ahistorical bollocks, it's utter fucking nonsense. communist regimes were by no means fascist, as there's a great deal more to fascism than the question of authoritarianism.
What is the definition of fascism?
- Thread starter Silver_Fox
- Start date
I wasn't aware of the Paris Commune, French history is not something that I'm really aware of. Please bear with me while I look into this. My point about the Eastern Europeans and the USSR was to say that fascism isn't a domain purely occupied by the far right. Not necessarily trying to be all-encompassing of all leftist regimes.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
maybe you should have said "perhaps" instead of "i think" as thought appears to have been absent from your post.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It is though Mike. Nasty murderous authoritarianism might not be, but fascism most certainly is.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
the interplay between far left and far right within fascism is something which i believe hasn't received the attention it deserves in popular considerations of the issue. take, for example, mussolini's famous history as a left-wing radical before 1914: or many of the points in the nsdap's programme. many of the bnp's policies would not be out of place in traditional socialist parties' manifestos.
but to ascribe the name 'fascist' to communist regimes is anachronistic and is utterly fucking stupid.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
Depends on your definition tho, surely?
fascism is a movement that capitalism uses to to divide the working class and to if neccessary take power to smash the working class. how it looks, what features it has, depends on the specific historical and local political situation hence the differrences between rumania, italy and spain then and france and england today so to try to argue over these 'definitions' is meaningless .. in 2009 fascism will NOT be 'futurist', or anti-semitic, or ultra catholic as they were simply specifics of their time and place
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Communist german and Italian regimes.
Because, as was pointed out by the OP peoples definitions of fascism are quite wide ranging. My opinion is that it doesn't need to be, we can define it much tighter, it's just that it may be uncomfortable to those who would not like their cause-celebre tagged as fascist.
The people leading those regimes may not even have intend to be fascist, but the law of unintended consequences could mean that the regimes end up that way.
i wouldn't necessarily agree with your point about smashing teh working classes. Whilst the Nazi's were absolutely anti trade-union. The Nazi regime certainly looked to reduce the disparity between worker and management in industry.
Zabo
Well-Known Member
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Were the nazis communists Mike?
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Fascism arose to crush the left in 1920's Italy. It can not be considered anything but far right.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Look at who you're using (again). And please, say something rather than C&Ping.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
if they fit your definition, it's a definition arrived at from pig-ignorance.Depends on your definition tho, surely?
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Hayek had a specific idealogical axe to grind.
CyberRose
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Another point, how many "communists" would ever admit that the Communist states of Russia and China actually represented their political ideologies?
Most people on this forum, for example, would go to great lengths to tell people the USSR and China were not communist states...
well yes but in the defence of capitalism against what was a massive w/c communist movement
CyberRose
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Have you ever used the term "neocon" to describe something that wasn't neoconservative? Have you, for example (as many many many posters on U75 have done), ever referred to Tony Blair as being a "neocon"?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
NO
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
i don't believe i've ever used the term neocon.
But look back at Frogwoman's definition at the start of the thread;
Extreme nationalism - Check.
Racism - Check.
Anti-intellectualism - Check (murder / imprisonment of opposing intellectuals, murder of the officer corp of the Army by Stalin).
I don't think the re-birth thing comes into it for the USSR.
Expansion and aggressive foreign policy - check (though partly to counter US expansionism).
They certainly fit the bill by that definition, so trying to dismiss it as stupid doesn't really match the situation as it has been seen.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
yes, the old state capitalist chestnut
what they mean is that the old communist states were not their sort of communist, or that these states were communist with a big c and they are communists with a small c, in the sense which zizek uses the word.
imo
Fascism is an attempt to harness the energy of the mass hatred and direct it towards an imaginary threat. Fascists identify with one another through hatred and fear, as dictated by their leaders
Fascism is an attempt to harness the energy of the mass hatred and direct it towards an imaginary threat. Fascists identify with one another through hatred and fear, as dictated by their leaders
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So were the nazis communists Mike. Yes or no please.
(you've erronesoulsy ticked lots of boxes btw)
(you've erronesoulsy ticked lots of boxes btw)
That is probably true, and if they weren't, then it MAY fit my contention that they were fascist!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
i don't agree with frogwoman's definition either.
the murder/imprisonment of opposing intellectuals doesn't make a regime anti-intellectual, and few army officers are intellectual in any army.
Zabo
Well-Known Member
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
...and there's no reason for any of them checks.
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