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What is better UFC or Boxing?

sim667 said:
Maybe there should be an urban fighting championship :D
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Isn't that the P&P forum?

(Though God only knows what would happen if the various politico's there were given weaponry and locked in a room together, Thunderdome style) :eek:
 
Bakunin said:
Isn't that the P&P forum?

(Though God only knows what would happen if the various politico's there were given weaponry and locked in a room together, Thunderdome style) :eek:
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Battle royale in a really confined space i would imagine....... a phone box would do it
 
Bakunin said:
but the growth in MMA is something, IMHO, that the boxing Establishment is more than a little concerned about to put it mildly. People that might once have gone into boxing are, increasingly, going into MMA instead and, as MMA gets bigger and bigger, I think it'll continue to do so at the expense of boxing.
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i think that an adjustment needs to be made to boxing. western boxing is still the daddy as far as hand skills are concerned- no-one punches harder or better than a boxer. this means that boxing will remain one of the core disciplines that needs to be mastered in order to have success in mma.
pure boxers will always struggle in mma because it's exactly that- mma. as soon as the boxer achieves dominance in striking (before if the mma fighter is switched on) then the mma guy can either stand off and kick, or close and grapple

i feel that this keeps it realistic and is a more pure form of combat. boxing needs a referee to constantly reset the fighters, whereas mma has a much better flow and is less predictable

i also believe that boxing rules as currently laid down detract from the excitement as well as making serious head injury more likely than in mma. the large gloves worn by boxers make matches highly attritional as the fighters can absorb a lot more shots without apparent damage, however internal damage is greatly increased by the greater repetition of trauma. in mma the smaller gloves are harder to block and allow more power, leading to a much greater amount of quick knockouts.
any doctor will tell you that it's better to be hit harder, once, than not so hard but many times over a sustained period.

i also think that boxing would do well to adopt the timing of mma bouts; 3 five minute rounds for prelims or five five minute rounds for championship fights would mean fighters aren't 'saved by the bell' and allowed to continue longer than they should and take more punishment; the fight will be stopped once one fighter achieves sustained dominance

it is noticeable to me how much less 'punch drunk' mixed martial artists are than boxers with similar numbers of fights. i think smaller gloves and longer rounds would, counter intuitively, better protect the boxers

so i prefer mma, but it's the application of boxing that makes mma so appealing to me.

and i'd love to see it in the olympics....it's not healthy that the ufc has such a stranglehold on the sport after it's takeover of pride, as they have tried to steer the sport in a favorable direction for american fighters, i.e. to favour grappling over striking
 
Even the most boring boxing bout is not as boring as a half boring UFC fight. Two blokes on the floor wrapped around each other because they are scared to let go is not my idea of fun. At the other end of the spectrum the best boxing match is far better than the best UFC match. Now anyone who wants to argue different can stfu or I'll bash your head in.
 
to illustrate the point

buakow por paramuk was the greatest muay thai fighter, and arguably the best striker, of his generation.
he'd convincingly won the k1 max title with pure muay thai, but the following year had been given all sorts of trouble in the final by andy souwer's boxing and lost a close decision.

so then that year buakow trained boxing......:

 
Bakunin said:
The simple fact, galling though it is for the boxing afficionados among us, is that boxers (with the noted exception of former IBF world cruiserweight champion James Warring, who also trained in karate and kickboxing) have usually done very badly in MMA events.
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People always use this as some form of comparison/example. But on the same hand, put an MMA'er in with a boxer with boxing rules and he'd be sparked out early, every time.

MMA and Boxing are different disciplines, it matters not how either would do in the other.

MMA is shit in comparison to the noble science.

But I am biased of course. Been watching boxing 35 years and I aint about to change my allegiance.
 
Don't mind boxing and can see the appeal.

Big fan of MMA - like the variety of skills on show and the way the fighters work to make use of the advantages they have in certain disciplines.

I can understand completely why some would find extended bouts of grappling/ground work dull, but I appreciate that aspect as well - I think my doing judo as a young 'un probably helps that.

I have also really enjoyed watching the sport evolve over such a short period of time. The early days were indeed too much about brawlers and thugs damaging each other as much as possible, but changes in the rules and the format have left that well behind.

The modern, top-tier MMA fighter is an elite, dedicated athlete in peak physical condition and skilled in numerous branches of martial/combat arts.

I enjoy watching them ply their trade immensely.

:)
 
And as for this boxing is worried rubbish, it aint. Yes boxing needs to make some changes, i.e. unified champ, super 6 tournies. But worried about the rise of MMA, certainly not.

There's a saying 'how goes the heavyweights, how goes boxing', I partially agree and it's sad we're awaiting another golden era of heavyweights, but there's so much happening in the weights below it doesn't really matter so much.

But, that's why we need David Haye to win against the big bugger next w/end, bring some juice to the heavyweights.

But it saddens me, the lack of interest in this bout which is on next Saturday :(
 
Numbers said:
And as for this boxing is worried rubbish, it aint. Yes boxing needs to make some changes, i.e. unified champ, super 6 tournies. But worried about the rise of MMA, certainly not.
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I really dislike the fanboyism that seems to have appeared in both sports as a direct result of the rise of the popularity of MMA.

I don't see why there needs to be competition between the two camps or why one can't enjoy both.

I suspect the promoters on both sides are probably the prominent catalysts...
 
The Groke said:
I really dislike the fanboyism that seems to have appeared in both sports as a direct result of the rise of the popularity of MMA.

I don't see why there needs to be competition between the two camps or why one can't enjoy both.

I suspect the promoters on both sides are probably the prominent catalysts...
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Totally agree brother (unless I'm a fanboy :hmm:), very different disciplines, and absolutely no comparisons should be made. It's good we have both.
 
Numbers said:
Totally agree brother (unless I'm a fanboy :hmm:),
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Heh - doesn't look like it to me! You knows what you likes and can enjoy it without denigrating the other.

I will confess, I have been guilty of it in the past, but it is stupid and I try not to do it. Room enough for both sports, both sets of fans.

This:

joe 90 said:
boxing is the noble art. UFC is for wank-hungry 14 year olds that cant get a ride.
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kind of thing is pretty limp.
 
UFC requires an appreciation for all martial arts. One person may see it as "rolling around on the floor", whereas somebody who is more knowlegable on the subject can appreciate the strategy and skill that's being played.

I didn't really "get" MMA until I started to watch the Ultimate Fighter series and saw what goes into the training and that helped me go on to form a good understanding of all the disciplines.
 
Bakunin said:
The simple fact, galling though it is for the boxing afficionados among us, is that boxers (with the noted exception of former IBF world cruiserweight champion James Warring, who also trained in karate and kickboxing) have usually done very badly in MMA events.
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Why would that be "galling"?

They are different sports. It's like saying "galling as it is for us football fans, St Helens would totally slaughter Manchester United at Rugby League". I'm unaware of anyone making it in boxing at any noteable level who comes from a MMA background. Should MMA fans find that "galling"?

And before someone starts, MMA is a sport. It's no more a "real fight" than boxing is, what with its time limits, illegal attacks, absence of weapons and lack of three drunk mates of one of the combatants joining in.

Bakunin said:
People that might once have gone into boxing are, increasingly, going into MMA instead and, as MMA gets bigger and bigger, I think it'll continue to do so at the expense of boxing.
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I sort of agree with this, although its less at the level of athletes and more at the level of fans. Boxing has always had a sizeable fanbase of people who don't care too much about the skills on show and just watch for the violence. MMA is a direct threat to boxing's appeal to the kind of punter who thinks that Tyson was the greatest heavyweight of all time.

MMA also has its own skills and intricacies and its own, much smaller, cadre of fans who appreciate that stuff, but that has nothing to do with the commercial threat it poses to boxing.

Personally, I couldn't give a shit about MMA. It's ugly and I find the sight of two sweaty men rolling about on top of each other intensely boring.
 
Boxing all the way. I've dipped into UFC once, when Michael Bisping was knocked out a few months back and it made the newspapers. I looked it up on YouTube and found one of the most despicable, cowardly, gutless things I've ever seen: . That would be beneath the honour of two pissheads having a punch-up on Holloway Road on a Saturday night, but apparently it's de rigeur in UFC. I'll stick with Cotto-Pacquiao next month.
 
Bakunin said:
The simple fact, galling though it is for the boxing afficionados among us, is that boxers (with the noted exception of former IBF world cruiserweight champion James Warring, who also trained in karate and kickboxing) have usually done very badly in MMA events.
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we've never seen a top flight boxer in mma. there are a lot of failed boxers there, but as boxing currently pays a lot more than mma, that's where the boxing talent stays.

the reason we see such (successful) crossover from other pure martial arts like bjj and muay thai is that professional mma pays more than these sports and allows their practitioners to make a living wage if they can adapt. a top drawer boxer would earn a fraction of what he can in boxing, so the best stay there

for me the most exciting time in stand up mma was when mirko crocop assaulted k1. i know nowadays he's famed for his devastating kicks, but in k1 that's taken as a given and it was his boxing skills that won him the title
 
Even if you did get a top boxer going into MMA, theyd have to have good takedown avoidance skills or mat skills or they would be very vulnerable. Generally a good wrestler should always beat a good boxer because if you get taken down at will your boxing is useless.
 
that's why we have 'sprawl and brawl'

agreed, the boxer needs to be able to grapple, but chuck liddel made a career out of boxing wrestlers who couldn't take him down

just look at what happens when an elite striker like anderson silva gets in the ring/cage. his level of ability is so much higher than the average mm artist that it becomes mesmerising to watch him. a top level boxer could do the same if he had the ground skills to prevent the takedown
 
I think 'better' is a silly topic. I like watching both.

In MMA I particularly enjoy watching potato-headed Russian judoka Fedor.

e.g. want to see a Hagler-like 'pressure' fighter in action MMA style?

For those not totally conversant with the tactics, Fedor's opponent here is an extremely skilled and tough Brazilian Ju-Jitsu exponent who is most at home fighting a defensive fight from the 'guard' position, controlling his opponent with his legs and constantly looking for armlocks and so on.

The obvious thing for Fedor to do would be to refuse to fight in that position and keep getting back on his feet to fight stand-up. Instead he goes right into his opponent's home territory and just keeps incessant pressure on him.





 
Some of the people I used to train with did go to boxing classes, as boxing is one of the cornerstone of MMA for stand up skills along with muay thai and to a far lesser extent martial arts like kyokushin.

That is what MMA means: Mixed Martial Art, each aspect of striking, clinch and grappling can be trained seperatley and then it is all brought together.

Some of the best MMA fighters come from a specialist angle first, wether it be boxing, Judo, BJJ, wrestling or even kyokushin but then they add the 2 other aspects to their training and the result is MMA.
 
Bakunin said:
Hitting is bad when one of the combatants is either unwilling or unable to defend themselves and the other is attacking for no good reason. A drunk meathead in a pub or club lashing out at someone is bad, a gang going out picking on people without reason is bad, a violent individual who assaults perfectly harmless people is bad.

Properly matched fights between evenly matched fighters, with the relevant health and safety precautions being taken, is a matter for consenting adults to either take part in and/or watch according to their own personal choice, IMHO.
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:D I always love this one. Gives the impression of a Health and Safety Officer going round with clipboard and biro. Always manages to ensure that when you are upended and piledrived on your head by a 20 stone bloke, that its done in a healthy and safe way. :D
 
4thwrite said:
:D I always love this one. Gives the impression of a Health and Safety Officer going round with clipboard and biro. Always manages to ensure that when you are upended and piledrived on your head by a 20 stone bloke, that its done in a healthy and safe way. :D
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I know it sounds daft, given the nature of combat sports, but the level of health provision for fighters in both boxing and MMA is pretty good. Personally, I'm all for fighters having thorough medical examinations, brain scans, mandatory drug tests and there being the right level of emergency provision available in the event of a fighter being injured in some way.

Remember, while we're talking about combat sports where some level of injury and physical damages is always a possibility, we're not talking about the illegal end of things where there's no provision made at all for fighter's safety. Boxing and MMA are both high-level sports with big audiences, and are light years away from some abandoned warehouse with a ring made of oil drums and frayed ropes on some dodgy industrial estate or dockside somewhere.
 
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