cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I disagree.
What is Art?
- Thread starter weltweit
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
ok. ime it is very rare to hear a woman called a cunt, particularly by a man. Very different usage from the US in that regard.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
My experience differs from yours.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
We seem to have diverted down an OT alley ....
Surely there is more to say about Art, what is and what isn't and the like ...
My dad used to paint, with a pallet knife, he built up his pictures layer on layer, they were almost three dimensional. They were impressions, not detailed, he didn't like detailed paintings, in fact he used to say, what is the point of them, why not just take a photo.
Surely there is more to say about Art, what is and what isn't and the like ...
My dad used to paint, with a pallet knife, he built up his pictures layer on layer, they were almost three dimensional. They were impressions, not detailed, he didn't like detailed paintings, in fact he used to say, what is the point of them, why not just take a photo.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
If you call a female artist a sexist derogatory term, expect to be pulled up on it.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I certainly wasn't aware it was a sexist term, I was going to write "slob" but as I don't ever use that for a woman the other word came to mind. Sorry if you were offended, but the bed suggests untidiness, mess, disorder, uncleanness, etc etc .. as I think it was intended to.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
You'd have been better off with slob as it's not female specific
ToothlessFerret
Well-Known Member
The bowerbird creates art in order to attract mates. Are we so sure that isn't the origin of art in humans? Sexual selection? "Come up to my room to see my etchings!".
I've also seen an evolutionary explanation given for landscapes. The suggestion is, that a beautiful landscape often includes a meandering river, hills, a valley, flowers, trees, bio-diversity. In other words, a utopia for a hunter-forager. Lots of natural resources. Could that often be what attracts us?
Finally, how far back does human art go? Although we think that we see an explosion of expression in the cave art of Europe, dating as far back as 35,000 years ago or more, anthropologists keep finding earlier evidence of painting, maybe body painting, going back to maybe 80,000 years ago or more - predating any exodus of anatomically modern humans into Asia and Europe.
Then there's the Acheulian bi-face "hand axes" dating back to over one million years ago. Some of them are still clearly attractive, and asymmetrical beyond any practical requisite.
.... just a few thoughts from someone that doesn't understand art (but I know what I like!).
weltweit
Well-Known Member
cesare, what is your understanding of the meaning of the word slattern?. google just says:You'd have been better off with slob as it's not female specific
slattern
ˈslat(ə)n/
noun
dated
noun: slattern; plural noun: slatterns
- a dirty, untidy woman.
"a slattern, her lipstick awry"
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It's a gendered derogatory term. It's a gendered insult. It's offensive and there's no reason to call a female artist that because of a piece of her artwork.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Is it more offensive to you because it is a female specific term?
It was intended to be light hearted, hence the smiley, obviously that did not work, but such a bed is a bit disgusting no? Can I not comment on that?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It's an insult designed and used specifically for females. It's sexist. Yes, it's more offensive to me because it's a fucking sexist insult. Comment on the artwork if you don't like it but don't call the artist sexist insults for producing it especially if you're fucking clueless as to what it actually represents.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Ok...
As an artwork it doesn't do anything for me. I would want to put all the rubbish in the bin and change the sheets!
What does it represent for you?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Bower bird, good point, but is it art or something else? A nest is not art, is this not like a nest? I know it is intended to attract a mate but does that make it art?
The bowerbird creates art in order to attract mates. Are we so sure that isn't the origin of art in humans? Sexual selection? "Come up to my room to see my etchings!".
Hmm... ok, but are landscapes especially popular in art? I know they are "popular" .. I suppose they could be especially popular .. don't know ....
Yes I think cave art goes way back, and body painting also ..
Never heard of them .. will google.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living, 1991, Damien Hirst The work originally sold for around $73,000. The most recent price was $12-million.
http://art-now-and-then.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/damien-hirst.html
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
ToothlessFerret
Well-Known Member
An interesting study would be if the bowerbird creates in patterns with little due course to limited instinctive patterns, and to compare that to human creativity. I must sound really boring. I had no introduction to art as a kid, except via a shitty education system - that being state based, should have been much better than it was. I think actually that in recent years, photography has made me much more aware about art than I've been ever in the past. Especially in popular art as expressed on the Internet by actual people, uploading their photo-art. Art is expression - with or without words. I'm saying that without any education or reading in the arts.
I have read too much (and practiced) about archaeology and prehistory. There is this question about "when did we become human". I think that it's fair enough to state, that we became cognitive modern humans when we started to express art. Because this was just another result of natural selection, it was very, gradual, and a very long process - extending over a million years. The thing that really marks our species is culture. We build our worlds around us, using imagination to change our environments to suit us. Not always very well, or with due course for the long term. I'm not kidding about the sexual selection. It may have been a factor in that selection. It got us laid.
I have read too much (and practiced) about archaeology and prehistory. There is this question about "when did we become human". I think that it's fair enough to state, that we became cognitive modern humans when we started to express art. Because this was just another result of natural selection, it was very, gradual, and a very long process - extending over a million years. The thing that really marks our species is culture. We build our worlds around us, using imagination to change our environments to suit us. Not always very well, or with due course for the long term. I'm not kidding about the sexual selection. It may have been a factor in that selection. It got us laid.
It could also be a photographic lie which could be art also.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Stanley according to you just about anything can be art no?
For me Emin's bed isn't art, for me, for others it may be.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
A bower bird is doing something very specific, whether he knows it or not - he is trying to get laid.
Is he able to stand back from what he is doing and appreciate what it is?
Is he able to stand back from what he is doing and appreciate what it is?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Genuine q, btw. I don't know.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
He seems to be doing quite well, he has most of her clothes off already !! And that without the complex lovenest of the bower bird!So is this guy.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
But with the complex trappings of the zoot suit and low rider.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
A male bower bird certainly has an aesthetic sensibility - a feel for what looks right and what doesn't in order to create the overall effect he's after - and of course, the female has a sensibility too in choosing one bower over another.
That sensibility has certainly been developed over time through natural selection, and probably more of our aesthetic sense has also been shaped by evolution than most of us normally admit.
That allows the bower bird and us to create decorative pieces. But we have also developed something the bower bird probably has not - works that knowingly attempt to communicate to others some sense of our inner lives.
That sensibility has certainly been developed over time through natural selection, and probably more of our aesthetic sense has also been shaped by evolution than most of us normally admit.
That allows the bower bird and us to create decorative pieces. But we have also developed something the bower bird probably has not - works that knowingly attempt to communicate to others some sense of our inner lives.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I'm not known for my flights of whimsy or particular dedication to artistry- a dabbler in poesy and short fic.
but, and dispute this if you will, I always saw the artist as the flawed lense, the human lense. And be it a painting, a poem, a story or a film. The thing captured is the thing seen through the eyes and emotions of the artist. It's not direct clinical photography or analytical history text. The art itself should tell you something of what the artist feels about what he is capturing in oils or words. Guernica is an obvious example.
but, and dispute this if you will, I always saw the artist as the flawed lense, the human lense. And be it a painting, a poem, a story or a film. The thing captured is the thing seen through the eyes and emotions of the artist. It's not direct clinical photography or analytical history text. The art itself should tell you something of what the artist feels about what he is capturing in oils or words. Guernica is an obvious example.
Some gullible fool will buy it, further perpetuating the myth that shite like that is art.
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