What intermediate digital camera is good for night shots?

[salaryman]

I have an IXUS v3 which takes great sunlight pictures but bloody awful flash pictures. As for no-flash night or indoor shots, the camera excels at producing absurdly blurred images.

So... I'm looking for an all-rounder intermediate camera, something like the Canon G5 (which I'd get 2nd hand - I don't need 7 megapixels). I'm looking for good features (aperture/shutter priority etc) and excellent results. The reviews of the Canon G-series seem to imply the same night/indoor problems as the Ixus, so what other options are out there for me? I'd appreciate any recommendations and, if poss, some sample shots (URL's).

Or perhaps I should sod it and just fork out for a Nikon D70? ;-)


Cheers!

 

[Hocus Eye.]

The feature you need to look for in the specifications is a high ISO number. With film you can get an ISO of up to 1600 but the fastest I have seen on a digital camera is 400 ISO. I cannot name any particular cameras that would suit you as I new models come out so quickly that the best answer would be to do a Google.

I hope that helps as far as it goes.

EDITED TO ADD: I have just checked a revue of the Canon G5 you mention. It says that the exposure range is from 50 ISO to 400 ISO but also states that this (for no stated reason in that part of the revue) would be the equivalent of another manufacturers range of 100 ISO to 800 ISO. If that is so then this camera should suit your purpose well.

Hocus

 

[editor]

A word of warning: using high ISO ratings on consumer digital cameras produced horrible, blotchy images, full of noise. Things improve massively with a digital SLR.

If you want to take decent flash shots, you'll have to invest in a decent external flash gun as most compacts come with a feeble light source.

 

[Private Storm]

I've heard that for consumer type digitals that are crap at night shots (mine included), using the highest ISO setting (along with a very steady hand obv.) coupled with an application something like Noiseninja works pretty well. Anybody used this approach? Thoughts?

(Sorry for the slight derail btw)

 

[Wilson]

dunno about the d70 but i assume its much the same as the d100 which goes up to 1600iso and then has two settings above that (6400~ish) the pictures get pretty grainy and noisy whit the gain up so high so a larger filesize is pretty useful

 

[salaryman]

thanks for the info. you're riught about high ISO - at 200 on mine it looks shit.

i think perhaps it's more to do with the aperture range. when i used to use an olympus mju 35mm camera, the night shots were excellent, even with 200 ISO film, cos it had an F2 lens. a friend has an olympus 4040 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Olympus/oly_c4040z.asp) which takes excellent night shots - interestingly this camera has an aperture range from F1.8. the ixus goes from F2.8 which i guess will affect the quality of night shots. the G5 is F2 so i guess it will be better...

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I notice that the night or dimly-lit pictures that I took with my old Canon Powershots (an A40 I think and an S200) are a lot better than the ones with my current Minolta Dimage, which is a bit irritating. Even when manually selecting 400 ISO.

I like the form factor and features of the Dimage but I think I'll be going back to Canon for my next camera - I get better photos with them.

 

[editor]

I've heard that for consumer type digitals that are crap at night shots (mine included), using the highest ISO setting (along with a very steady hand obv.) coupled with an application something like Noiseninja works pretty well. Anybody used this approach? Thoughts?

Noise Ninja (or Neat Image) can really help remove noise, but you're asking an awful lot if you expect it to clean up a 400 ISO image taken on a small compact with a tiny flash.

Most compacts come with some form of noise reduction built in for long exposure shots - I've had good results shooting at 100 ISO with the camera positioned on a solid object.

Some digi-compacts come with image stablisation built in and that can help you produce decent shots with low light hand-held exposures (the new Minolta A200 - around £400 - is apparently pretty good at this).

key to your success with night shots will be the size of the aperture on your lens. The G6 comes with a fast f2 lens while others come with murky f4 lens - it may not sound much but it'll make a massive difference to the success of your low light shots.

 

[salaryman]

The G6 comes with a fast f2 lens while others come with murky f4 lens - it may not sound much but it'll make a massive difference to the success of your low light shots.

does anyone know of any other similarly spec'ed cameras which have a fast F2 lens or better? the only ones i can see on dpreview.com are a couple of old olympus ones. other than these (and SLR's obviously), it's F2.8 or worse

cheers

 

[editor]

does anyone know of any other similarly spec'ed cameras which have a fast F2 lens or better? the only ones i can see on dpreview.com are a couple of old olympus ones. other than these (and SLR's obviously), it's F2.8 or worse

If you're really keen on night shots, the Sony 717 comes with both a fast lens (f2) and 'night vision' mode that lets you compose pics in complete darkness - and there's also a IR night vision mode too so you can shoot your own spooky pitch-black horror film.

And I (cough!) just happen to have one for sale!

 

[salaryman]

If you're really keen on night shots, the Sony 717 comes with both a fast lens (f2) and 'night vision' mode that lets you compose pics in complete darkness - and there's also a IR night vision mode too so you can shoot your own spooky pitch-black horror film.

And I (cough!) just happen to have one for sale!

not quite keen enough to put myself through carrying around such a rocket launcher-like device

i'm thinking a £200(ish) G5 from ebay...

 

[editor]

i'm thinking a £200(ish) G5 from ebay...

It's not a bad camera at all, although I've heard it's a bit slow to start up...

 

[Tricky Skills]

If you're really keen on night shots, the Sony 717 comes with both a fast lens (f2) and 'night vision' mode that lets you compose pics in complete darkness - and there's also a IR night vision mode too so you can shoot your own spooky pitch-black horror film.

And I (cough!) just happen to have one for sale!

...and is indeed a 'little' beauty of a camera. Hasn't let me down yet. Although my shaking hands have a few times.

 

[salaryman]

...and is indeed a 'little' beauty of a camera. Hasn't let me down yet. Although my shaking hands have a few times.

it does sound great but i just couldn't cope with the enormity of it, kinda like carrying around two tins of beans screwed onto a brick

 

[editor]

it does sound great but i just couldn't cope with the enormity of it, kinda like carrying around two tins of beans screwed onto a brick

It is a chunky beast, but the non-retractable lens has its advantages - it's way faster in operation and totally silent.

The Canon G5 ain't exactly bijou by the way!

 

[salaryman]

It is a chunky beast, but the non-retractable lens has its advantages - it's way faster in operation and totally silent.

The Canon G5 ain't exactly bijou by the way!

LOL!

So what are the downsides, other than the size, to it? Did you replace yours because you wanted a higher spec? Also, memory stick pro is pricey isn't it?

 

[editor]

So what are the downsides, other than the size, to it? Did you replace yours because you wanted a higher spec? Also, memory stick pro is pricey isn't it?

I'd say it's one of the best digi-cams I've owned, but as I've started to flog more of my work, I needed the flexibility and speed of a dSLR (so I bought a Nikon dSLR).

I first 'upgraded' to a Minolta A2 but actually found the Sony 717 to be a better camera - so the A2 went back and I kept my 717!

Its flash/low light performance is excellent and the swivelling body is great for grabbing unusual shots. Battery life is mighty too.

Downsides are that it's a bit big and that shiny silver finish isn't what I need when I'm taking street shots around Brixton!

Memory sticks are much cheaper now - you can get a half gig Sandisk for around £45.

 

[Cid]

Gotta stress what ed said - built in flashes are fucking shit, even the one on my D70 is piss poor... I use an old Vivitar my aunt had lying around and that works beautifully, also trying to work out a bloody amazing metz 45cl-4 my mum's friend lent me, but tis tricky. The D70 seems to work well in low-light, but that is with the flash, and of course it'll set you back £750... Not so sure about mid range digis, but have used a few sonys and they all work well in low light. Most other cams require a rigid subject and a tripod though.

 

[Paul Russell]

Talking of wanting a camera capable of shooting at high ISOs (e.g. digital SLRs) but not wanting something the size of a tank, there seems to be a new Pentax digital SLR in the shops.

Much smaller than the Nikon D70, looks a bit smaller than the Canon.

Are there any proper reviews of it yet (couldn't see anything on DP review, etc.)??

Although it is about 700/800 quid...

 

[FunkyUK]

I have an IXUS v3 which takes great sunlight pictures but bloody awful flash pictures. As for no-flash night or indoor shots, the camera excels at producing absurdly blurred images.

Get a tripod and remote / use the self timer.

Or perhaps I should sod it and just fork out for a Nikon D70? ;-)

D70 dabbling can get expensive, I just got one and am having fun with it. 2.8 200mm VR lenses..... who needs a flash or tripod?

Gotta stress what ed said - built in flashes are fucking shit, even the one on my D70 is piss poor...

Yes - Get the flash further from the camera or get a better flash - CID - I have the SB800, and Its fucking complex, but my "pissing about without reading the fucking manual yet" results so far have been so much better than the built in jobbie

 

[Poi E]

I'm looking at the Sony DSC-V3 as I need a replacement "rangefinder digital" and am off to NY this weekend =cheap. It might interest you as it has a red-light AF assist for low/no light focussing (like my 16 year old Canon EOS 100!) as well as a night framing mode allowing you to see a scene in complete darkness, which would be great for framing. The night shot stuff itself is a bit gimmicky IMO. The Sony can take an external flash, too. And at last, a compact digital with lightening quick autofocus, about bloody time.

 

[salaryman]

The DSC-V3 does look very nice indeed. Thanks for the tip. Have fun in NYC (not jealous at all!)

 

[editor]

I'm looking at the Sony DSC-V3 as I need a replacement "rangefinder digital" and am off to NY this weekend.

It's a nice camera but - annoyingly - doesn't have a wide angle lens (the zoom only goes as wide as 34mm) and the lens is good but not as fast as I'd like - F2.8 - F4.0

But it is a tempting camera!

 

[Poi E]

It's a nice camera but - annoyingly - doesn't have a wide angle lens (the zoom only goes as wide as 34mm) and the lens is good but not as fast as I'd like - F2.8 - F4.0

But it is a tempting camera!

Yes, not as fast as I'd like too. I was using an old Sony Mavica digital camera with a floppy drive and 2 MP recently. It had a very compact 35-350 zoom and f1.8-2.8 from memory. Zoom was all internal focus, too, so fewer dust issues. Why the hell compact digi lenses have gotten slower over the last few years is strange. I played with the G6 but its autofocus just wasn't snappy enough. Realised that this is a big thing when I needed to be fast and discrete with the camera in South Africa recently. A silver camera is a big no-no too!

 

[salaryman]

It's a nice camera but - annoyingly - doesn't have a wide angle lens (the zoom only goes as wide as 34mm) and the lens is good but not as fast as I'd like - F2.8 - F4.0

not many non-SLR digicams have wide angle do they? the minolta dimage rage, the canon powershot pro. that's about it. the F717 is only 38mm unfortunately.

 

[editor]

not many non-SLR digicams have wide angle do they? t.

Yep. The Sony 828 goes to 28mm, as does the Minolta A2 but they're big beasties.

There are some smaller cameras with wide angle lens - the Canon Powershot S60 has a 28 - 100 mm equiv lens (F2.8 - F5.3) as does the new S70.

But if your budget can reach into the stratosphere, there's always the Leica Digilux 2 (or Panasonic equiv) with a mouthwatering f/2 – f/2.4, 28 - 90 mm zoom lens....

 

[salaryman]

But if your budget can reach into the stratosphere, there's always the Leica Digilux 2 (or Panasonic equiv) with a mouthwatering f/2 – f/2.4, 28 - 90 mm zoom lens....

Mmmmmm, I've been drooling over this for some time now. The Aston Martin of digicams. I didn't realise it had a 28-90 lens as well, lordy! Sadly, my budget, whilst not miniscule, is still languishing in mid-troposphere position.

Thanks for all the advice everyone, it really is much appreciated. I'll let you know how I get on after the usual distressing eBay frenzy.

 

[Poi E]

Hmm bollocks, can't decide if I should go for the faster lens of the G6 or the speed of the Sony DSC-V3. Both feel good in my hands. So many decisions...

 

[editor]

Hmm bollocks, can't decide if I should go for the faster lens of the G6 or the speed of the Sony DSC-V3. Both feel good in my hands. So many decisions...

Apparently, the Sony DSC-V3 is much faster to start up, focusses faster and has all the night framing stuff. But no swivelling LCD screen. But it's cool black. But the lens isn't as fast as the G6. But that camera looks shite...um....er....

Actually, I may be getting another 'about town' camera soon and I'm looking at both the Sony DSC-V3 and the highly reviewed new Olympus that everyone's raving about.... and in my dreams I'll be fantasising about the Leica Digilux 2

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Actually, I may be getting another 'about town' camera soon and I'm looking at both the Sony DSC-V3...2

What are you using at the moment?