poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
The shops are full of potatoes! The national wheat harvest has exceeded predicted yield by 100%! The war is at last within measurable sight of it's end!tbaldwin said:
Long Live The Party!
What have New labour actually done right?
- Thread starter WWWeed
- Start date
Long Live The Party!
tbaldwin said:
For a picture of the state the NHS is in check this site out:
www.keepournhspublic.com/policybriefings.php
You could start by simply looking at the Cuts Compendium.
It is poor planning on NLs part that the proposed Hospital closures look set to come into fruition in the run up to the General Election! Meanwhile nurses appalled by compulsory redundancy plans are lobbying their (Labour supporting) union leaders for strikes. Despite supporting Labour UNISON did have to concede a mass lobby of Parliament in opposition to the cuts you are so intent on denying.
Those who work in the NHS (excepting the high paid execs) are up in arms. Those who use the NHS are too - huge demonstrations and amazingly opinion polls show that the majority now distrust NL over the NHS even more than they distrust the Tories.
So TB - you are out of touch with NHS workers, NHS unions, the public. You can't simply blame the media. The NHS is in crisis. Everyone can see but you and NL spin doctors.
Groucho said:
So whats your answer..Maybe we should all join a hopeless band of academics who argue for purity and practice falling out with each other.
Or maybe we might be better off with people who have tripled spending on the health service....Its quite a dilemana isnt it.....Can you see why the SWP is so very poPular?
You have fallen for Tory lies hook line and sinker. The NHS is always going to fail some people and its easy to spin as in permenant crisis.
But the truth is more lives are being saved,there are more nurses and more people are being treated.
I'm against PFI i think its shit but its simply untrue to try and pretend that most of the increased spending has gone on it...It hasnt...
The NHS has always made a few people rich,higly paid consultants,GPs who's pay is a National disgrace,drug companies and dodgy buidling companies to try and pretend its all totally new is infantile.
NL (as Groucho points out) have increased the differential between rich and poor beyond Thatcher's wildest dream. Go Labour! Everything else pales into insignificance.
As a Trade Unionist I seen NIL difference in the way the law hobbles everything we do. I'm glad I'm in a union that has a political fund, but not an affiliation to Labour. All TUs should do the same.
As a Trade Unionist I seen NIL difference in the way the law hobbles everything we do. I'm glad I'm in a union that has a political fund, but not an affiliation to Labour. All TUs should do the same.
TAE said:
Human rights? You thinking of the right to be shot in the head by armed police while travelling innocently to work, ASBOS, ID cards and the like. They have already partially introduced ID cards in NI, in the form of photo ID cards to use when voting, for the people who haven't got 'acceptable' photo IDs like driving licences. No card, no vote. [Perhaps a pilot scheme for the mainland.] As well as spending millions of taxpayers money fighting people we had no quarrel with, of course.
I thought Thatcher was the absolute pits, but Bliar is a criminal. He should be tried for war crimes, IMO.
tbaldwin said:
Look PFI is a disgrace and is a major drain on the NHS. Trust hospitals are a disaster. These have been pushed headlong by NL and are exacerbating other problems. Privatisation of cleaners has led to an increase in contraction of disease in hospitals.
There are long term issues. Increased demand. Inflation has long been a problem in the NHS because certain drug companies have had monopoly on provision. None of these issues have been assisted by PFI. The problem is that necessary increased spending has not benefited health care in the way that it has to - because it is being syphoned off into private hands. It is a fact that John Major also increased spending on the NHS.
Hospitals up and down the country are in debt (and incidentally NL claims credit for spending generated by sell offs, cuts and loans). Compulsory redundancies of nurses and mass hospital closures are in the pipeline.
You say I have 'fallen for Tory lies' (spouted by the likes of former Labour Health Minister, Frank Dobson
). I repeat the crisis in the NHS is being shouted about by nurses, doctors, patients, the public, UNISON and health campaigners. Tories and the media have simply jumped hypocritically on a bandwagon of discontent that already exists because of a crisis in NHS provision. Highly paid consultants have been joined under NL by an array of high paid executive managers who often know (or care) little about health care.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
The wording of the foxhunting law has left so many loopholes that it might as well not even have been brought in. Blair can now claim to have outlawed foxunting whilst simulataneously letting it continue.TAE said:
ZAMB said:
Listening to some people you could be forgiven for thinking that we lived in awful times...Its just like nazi germany out there....In angry middle class liberal land......Been shot on the way to work recently? Well you probably will be soon.Listen to ZAMB wise up people......
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
I see you've found another 'liberal' to castigate, baldo. You know, with that attitude, you and Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh could be bosom buddies. In fact, you wouldn't be out of place in the US; you see 'liberals' everywhere.
nino_savatte said:I see you've found another 'liberal' to castigate, baldo. You know, with that attitude, you and Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh could be bosom buddies. In fact, you wouldn't be out of place in the US; you see 'liberals' everywhere.
There are a couple of minor issues that you might have spotted me and Dick have different views on.....You know stuff like redistribution of wealth and power...Educational privellege ( Which is something i know you like)
Oh and Socialism and er Religion and er public spending and er taxation.....
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
I beg to differ, I think you share all those 'values' with Dick and Don and Doug and John.
You have claimed to be an "authoritarian socialist" though, I suspect, only part of that statement is true.
nino_savatte said:
OK yeah i know some people think i was joking when i called myself an authoritarian...But it was just my way of saying that Socialism would not happen if we waited for a lovelly warm liberal concensus...
Ps any way what do you care....You know your a Tory with your Right wing views on supporting privelleges in education.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
Spoken like a true troll.
tbaldwin said:
I'm supposed to believe you over the doctors, hospitals etc. concerned? Thanks but no thanks!!
As for your 'been shot on your way to work comment' - nice if I was mobile enough to work - or even leave the house more often. It's a major production for me just to maintain 'independent' living in my own house. The physio and other support services helped. Also a rather insensitive comment - I'll just presume you missed the fact that I live in NI when you were reading my post.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Why would they want people to think that? If they did, they'd give up on the Tories for good.tbaldwin said:
They think that because they've completely misunderstood what Mr Blair and his Project are. Depressingly it's left to the outer-wilderness of right-wing thinking, as populated by Bruce "rummy" Anderson, Melanie Philips and Peter Hitchens, to see what's really going on. (Albeit twisted by their own Moral Minority views and visceral hatred of the Left.)
Blair is a violent wrecker devoid of a coherent ideology, but he is rooted in the worst type of left-wing thinking, elitist Fabianism crossbred with the Politburo. Government is Good, and can make you Good, but only the middle-class elite can be entrusted to run it, and it must rule with an iron glove (worn by a Glaswegian bruiser). Big business and the Market can be harnessed to deliver egalitarianism. Most of all, all history is a Bad Thing, and must be destroyed by Cool Britannia.
It's absolute drivel, but it is not conservative, and neither is it left-wing. Using capitalism to deliver socialism is simply bonkers, Karl Marx crossbred with Ann Rand. (I know she had a thing for weird sex, but even she would have trouble bedding the Boil's Vanguard.) It will only succeed in destroying both ideologies.
At least I know what my side is and what they're against; why don't you do yourself the same favour?
What have new labour done right? = airbrush politics
Combustible
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree moreAzrael said:
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
WWWeed said:
They've won three general elections, stupid
ZAMB said:
1 Believe who you like. Doctors the BMA etc have a vested interest...If you think there all wonderful and we should accept there every word as gospel fair enough.....
2 I had no idea that you lived in the North Of Ireland but my point was about people being totally over the top about the govt....It didnt relate to where you lived.
tbaldwin said:
Shows that you didn't even bother reading through the post that you replied to then, doesn't it?
From what I've heard the HS here has been hit harder than on the mainland, though - NL don't have any members standing over here - why should they care about us - we can't affect their vote?
They're also in the process of selling off our water supply - something that all parties here are opposed to, and plans have been leaked [local paper yesterday] that people living in poorer areas will get only 2 weeks to pay before debt collectors are involved [in court within 7 weeks] - the rich will get longer for some reason. At the same time the rates [which previously included water charges] are going up - and I have been informed by letter that with rates+water I will be paying double what I do now. I think people have reason to be pissed at NL - they're more tory than the Tories, IMO.
Long live trollbaldwin, the king of ad hominem.
It does't matter what is said, or what evidence is offered, what matters to the baldwin is that he can pigeonhole the poster in one of his hate box categories - tory, liberal, middle class lefty, SWP, guardianista, whatever. 'Cos if they disagree with his preconceived ideas they are surely part of the enemy that must be crushed by the force of the authoritarian 'socialism', defender of the faith of Sun readers - who came to their views independently or Mr Murdoch, who has no influence whatsoever of course (it is a wonder he bothers with his media empire at all - its not like prime ministers and party leaders beat a path to his door is it?)
Oh, and did I spot the vitriolic Mr Azrael expressing a liking for selective/Grammar schools and railway privatisation back there? What strange and wonderful beasts one finds on Urban 75 these days.
It does't matter what is said, or what evidence is offered, what matters to the baldwin is that he can pigeonhole the poster in one of his hate box categories - tory, liberal, middle class lefty, SWP, guardianista, whatever. 'Cos if they disagree with his preconceived ideas they are surely part of the enemy that must be crushed by the force of the authoritarian 'socialism', defender of the faith of Sun readers - who came to their views independently or Mr Murdoch, who has no influence whatsoever of course (it is a wonder he bothers with his media empire at all - its not like prime ministers and party leaders beat a path to his door is it?)
Oh, and did I spot the vitriolic Mr Azrael expressing a liking for selective/Grammar schools and railway privatisation back there? What strange and wonderful beasts one finds on Urban 75 these days.
Not much of any substance has been said by the New Labour critics here has it.
Do they have some great alternative to a government that has massivelly increased spending on helath and education,raised pensions,bought in a minimum wage and a minimum income guarantee,
If they do id like to see their EVIDENCE>
Do they have some great alternative to a government that has massivelly increased spending on helath and education,raised pensions,bought in a minimum wage and a minimum income guarantee,
If they do id like to see their EVIDENCE>
Similar threads
- Poll
