What has Boris done for you?

[scifisam]

Yes, all local elections.

Yes. And Labour lost a lot, so it was a bad day for Labour.

What's that got to do with your argument that voting for local councillors and MPs is voting for the national party leader?

 

[danny la rouge]

Yes. And Labour lost a lot, so it was a bad day for Labour.

What's that got to do with your argument that voting for local councillors and MPs is voting for the national party leader?

I didn't say that. I said that people use local elections to comment on the Labour leader. (Or other party leaders).

 

[scifisam]

That's exactly what you said:

But a vote for Skinner is a vote for Brown. You vote for Skinner (or in the past, Tony Benn, etc), you get the leader of the Labour Party as PM. That's how it works.

So if people want to use local elections to comment on Westminster government, irritating though that may be, I don't see how the party in question can complain.

 

[danny la rouge]

That's exactly what you said:

Skinner is an MP. Voting for your local MP is voting for who becomes the next PM; we don't have presidential elections here.

And voting in local elections is seen - both by the electorate and by the parties - as an endorsement (or snub) for the policies of the government.

 

[scifisam]

Skinner is an MP. Voting for your local MP is voting for who becomes the next PM; we don't have presidential elections here.

I know. You were implying that the same applies to local elections and the mayoral election - otherwise why did you mention it at all in this thread?

And voting in local elections is seen - both by the electorate and by the parties - as an endorsement (or snub) for the policies of the government.

In general, yes. But we all know Ken is about as New Labour as Boris is.

 

[Final]

So, a month into his mayoralty
...

Will those who voted for him this time be voting for him next time?

bit early to say yet, ask me again in 2011.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

So what Boris Johnson has done for you has been to be not be Ken Livingstone? That's not such a great accomplishment - in the last week alone, Josef Fritzl, Ian Brady, and Ian Huntley have succeeded in not being Ken Livingstone.

True, but none are politicians.

All politicos are scum.

I'd rather the scumbag who is to be mayor of London is not Livingstone.

Tis all.

 

[danny la rouge]

I know. You were implying that the same applies to local elections and the mayoral election - otherwise why did you mention it at all in this thread?

Well, I thought I was quite explicit in what I was saying, but since you haven't understood I have to accept my meaning was unclear.

I'll try putting it another way: when people come to vote, they look at the handy guide to what the candidate stands for - party allegience. In the case of a Labour candidate, they can say to themselves (amongst other things), "Oh, yes, those are the buggers who got rid of my 10p tax band."

Now, we know that the London assembly doesn't have any say in fiscal policy, but nonetheless, people do that. But (and this is my point) if Ken didn't want to be associated with those policies, then he didn't need to stand with that flag on his ballot paper. But since he clearly wants that flag on his ballot paper, he needs to take the rough with the smooth.

This irksome habit of the electorate of judging people by the party they belong to (God knows why they do it) is, as I have said, in my view, the flip side of our political system which, in parliamentary elections, puts the leader of a party into number ten, no matter the personal beliefs of local candidates.

In general, yes. But we all know Ken is about as New Labour as Boris is.

With the above in mind, do we?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

True, but none are politicians.

All politicos are scum.

I'd rather the scumbag who is to be mayor of London is not Livingstone.

Tis all.

Richard Barnbrook is a politician. Would you have preferred him to Livingstone?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Richard Barnbrook is a politician. Would you have preferred him to Livingstone?

Nope and he's not. Boris is. And for that I am glad.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Nope and he's not. Boris is. And for that I am glad.

So do you agree with banning alcohol on the tube and scrapping the Venezuelan oil deal?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yes to the banning alcohol, should have banned food too.

No to scrapping the oil deal.

 

[George & Bill]

the crime-ridden streets of inner London where the poorer people, equally misguided, voted overwhelmingly for Livingstone.

er, most such areas backed Livingstone.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

er, most such areas backed Livingstone.

er, re-read what I said.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

He's got that whiney voiced wanker Livingstone out of my life.

Newt loving nu-labour (tory) Livingstone vs. foppish toff (though did get scholership to Eton so is probably cleverer than HIGNFU portrays) tory Boris. I'll take Boris.

The country lurched to the right about 30 years ago. Hating Bo-Jo for being a tory is as daft as believing that Labour are looking out for the poorest in society.

10p tax rate anyone?

Wow. Only ten posts in before we get a sensible post. Normally on the subject of Boris we have to wade through pages upon pages of 'the sun shone out of kens arse' before we get to an alternative view.

 

[George & Bill]

er, re-read what I said.

err, yes, I was just, er, agreeing with you

 

[George & Bill]

Wow. Only ten posts in before we get a sensible post. Normally on the subject of Boris we have to wade through pages upon pages of 'the sun shone out of kens arse' before we get to an alternative view.

Wow, someone who shares your views but is not too stupid to use a computer!

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Certainly a vote for Livingstone isn't necessarily one, regardless of how NL want to spin it - preferring Commissar Livingstone over Commissar Johnson can certainly be an entirely practical choice based on which Commissar you think is likely to do the least harm.

Well it was the fact that a vote for Livingstone would be also a vote for Brown which was a factor in some peoples decisions on who to vote for.

I agree about having to consider who would do the least harm and vote accordingly.

 

[tommers]

red ken is a tory?!?

the things you learn on here

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well it was the fact that a vote for Livingstone would be also a vote for Brown which was a factor in some peoples decisions on who to vote for.

Interesting use of the word 'fact' there. Please explain how a vote for Livingstone was a vote for Brown. You appear not to understand the institutional structure too well.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes to the banning alcohol, should have banned food too.

No to scrapping the oil deal.

So you agreed with the deal Livingstone's regime negotiated? What else did he do that you agreed with?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Interesting use of the word 'fact' there. Please explain how a vote for Livingstone was a vote for Brown. You appear not to understand the institutional structure too well.

Livingstone stood as a New Labour candidate. Therefore how can a vote for Livingstone be interpreted as anything other than a vote or an endorsement for Brown?

If Livingstone hadn't been so dodgy
If Livingstone hadn't been so arrogant
If Livingstone had listened to criticism

Then he may well have crept back in again.

But the fact that he stood as a NL candidate at a time when people are getting pissed off with being fleeced by Brown with extortionate taxes in exchange for piss poor services which meant that in many peoples minds including my own they equated Livingstone with Browns thievery and deception.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But the fact that he stood as a NL candidate at a time when people are getting pissed off with being fleeced by Brown with extortionate taxes in exchange for piss poor services which meant that in many peoples minds including my own they equated Livingstone with Browns thievery and deception.

Interesting change in tune there, KBJ. You didn't mention this before.

 

[London_Calling]

If Livingstone hadn't increased the 4x4 charge to £25.00
If Livingstone hadn't increased the 4x4 charge to £25.00
If Livingstone hadn't increased the 4x4 charge to £25.00

Corrected that for you, Mr Jockey. No charge.

 

[rennie]

I didn't vote for him and don't expect him to do anything for me.

 

[Gixxer1000]

But the fact that he stood as a NL candidate .

Thats because he was promised a crack at a London constituency for not rubbishing Brown.

 

[scifisam]

Thats because he was promised a crack at a London constituency for not rubbishing Brown.

He stood as Labour candidate for Mayor because he was promised a London constituency as MP? Eh?

 

[Gixxer1000]

the deal Livingstone's regime negotiated

<Sniggers> Try googling to see how many others have "negotiated" a similar deal, as Chavez buys legitimacy

 

[Gixxer1000]

He stood as Labour candidate for Mayor because he was promised a London constituency as MP? Eh?

Do keep up at the back. In the actuality of loosing to BJ.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

<Sniggers> Try googling to see how many others have "negotiated" a similar deal, as Chavez buys legitimacy

Chavez has no need to buy legitimacy. He already has legitimacy after winning fair and open elections, and with a clear-cut mandate that the likes of Gordon Brown or George Bush can only dream of.

Why are rightwingers on Urban so uniformly dim?