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What has anti-imperialism ever achieved?

But people will not get involved too much with the social side if they don't agree with the group politics. Thats why the 80's had such diversity in struggle. There was so much going on that people put aside there differences in order to better fight on the picket line/demo/anti facist ruck.

:)
 
TopCat said:
But people will not get involved too much with the social side if they don't agree with the group politics. Thats why the 80's had such diversity in struggle. There was so much going on that people put aside there differences in order to better fight on the picket line/demo/anti facist ruck.

:)
yeah but we not in the 8ts for right or wrong! that was a response to maggie putting 3 million on the dole overnight! nowadays people don't think they have a chance, don't think we can win .. then we really did, didn't we?? we have to develop a politics that both appeals to people and is real and concrete and does not ebb and flow with what the state does .. ( as did CW ;))

and i not what sure you mean by "people will not get involved too much with the social side if they don't agree with the group politics" .. that is not my experiance at all with local groups .. maybe you mean overtly cw type groups then yes they will continue to attract simply punks etc

i am talking about iwca/hi, alarm, bristolian etc etc combined with energy of rts and all who do parties to create real movement where we live ..

hey i thought you liked iwca anyway???
 
I like some of durruti's ideas. I think probably organising social things is an extra dimension that would help in beginning to build movements of resistance.

I also like the idea of just talking to people and organising around issues they want. Let's try it.

Of course we need as TopCat says to get away from groups who try to tell people what to think.

I tink though he is way too dismissive of the actual things people will be interested in but only experience and experimenting will tell on that one. It's a practical question I think.
 
durruti02 said:
yeah but we not in the 8ts for right or wrong! that was a response to maggie putting 3 million on the dole overnight!

That's also a key point we are in a different period of much lower class struggle. It doesn't mean we can't have protest movements sometimes even vibrant ones on a local level.

It does mean though we have to be more experimental, creative and not take anything for granted.
 
invisibleplanet said:
Translation please :(
sorry ip .. that was a bit of a personal reply to tc .. we were first politicaly active together over 22 years ago!! :O :O :O ( times flies way to fast!) ..
 
and of course one of the other major problems with ( 'imperialist' nation based) anti imperialism is WHO DO YOU SUPPORT lol!!.. this causes enormous problems .. is it zano or zapu? is it anc or biko? is it sf or irsp??? hamas or habash or plo or pflp etc? is it tom or ifm?? aa or cityaa?? and is your support absolute or 'critical' .. it is all so confusing .. :D
 
I don't think it really makes a difference at the end of the day. Why should the "resistance" in Iraq care about the arguments about 'critical' support between Workers Power and the CPGB, for example?
 
mk12 said:
I don't think it really makes a difference at the end of the day. Why should the "resistance" in Iraq care about the arguments about 'critical' support between Workers Power and the CPGB, for example?
Well mk12 has a point- however, I think there is the possibility of meaningful support in general and particular.

For example, demonstrations here will often be reported in other countries and though I share the frustration of many that the anti-war efforts failed to stop the war I for one don't regret the time I spent on them (though I certainly spent some of that time arguing for more direct action, for actions that could conceivably have made more of a difference).

Another example would be giving funds directly to a trade union in Iraq or another country.

We need to be practical in our solidarity.

And the fact that the modern working class is multiethnic, from all different parts of the world perhaps means we have more chance of making practical lnks.

Becuase I lived in Ethiopia I know people who desperately can use funds usefully to help organise- an example would be the Ethiopian Teachers' Association.

In 1964 Malcolm X said of the Congo war

Malcolm X said:
they're dropping bombs on villages where they have no defense whatsoever against such planes, blowing to bits Black women—Congolese women, Congolese children, Congolese babies. This is extremism. But it is never referred to as extremism, because it is endorsed by the West, it's financed by America, it's made respectable by America, and that kind of extremism is never labeled as extremism.
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/645.html

This point remains valid today- for Iraq and Afghanistan- in the Congo the war is financed by the West and other business interests looting the country's considerable mineral welath still but using guns, bombs, fire and even machetes.

The difference today is that some of those Congolese women, children and babies who have escaped the Congo are living here amongst us as part of our communities- people such as the Sukula family. Or Iraqi or Afghan refugees. It at least raises th epossibility of genuine meanigful solidarity links.
 
you raise the issue of practical solidarity .. and that is something that IS of use .. e.g. support by UK trade unions for Iraqi trade unions .. but i do not believe that this is 'anti imperialism' .. this is solidarity a very differrent and better thing and something i entirely agree with! unless again we are doing this at the expense of dealing with the here and now here

as for demos .. sorry i do not agree that they have much value in the attacked country .. the message they send is not clear and interpreted differrently by differrent groups there .. they would give as much of a boost to e.g reactionary forces in iraq

congo is a sad example of where the british left has actually almost totally ignored decades long capitalist war for resources presumably as they are not sure who to support (the people?) .. as always we must change power here before we can hope in any substantive way to change things there
 
mk12 said:
I don't think it really makes a difference at the end of the day. Why should the "resistance" in Iraq care about the arguments about 'critical' support between Workers Power and the CPGB, for example?
absolutely but, as someone who has been inside and around the left since 1976, the left here always took it pretty and idiotically seriously
 
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