nino_savatte
No pasaran!
No, of course you don't "follow" me. 
What does 'Proper' non-piscine Socialism involve?
- Thread starter Belushi
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well then explain yourself please.
_angel_
.
Are you trying to pretend that claimants, especially the most vulnerable ones ie disabled, lone parents are not being continually hauled out as 'scroungers' and demonised by govt and their media alike?
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Oh, the irony.
What's all this, then? Why is what butchers said ironic?No, of course you don't "follow" me.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
And almost totally ignored by the left? The left that can't even be bothered to raise a sound in protest when the TUC chief supports the welfare "reform" act? The left who'se members happily join the boss grades in the workplace, fire and discipline workers and still claim to be on their side?
And they say we - the emerging proper socialist left - are the ones being all rightwing, aiding the status-quo and ignoring the oppressed.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
He often throws this sort of thing at me, though it is often because he doesn't like what I'm saying.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Please don't encourage nino or we'll have yet another thread derailed to fuck.
Spion
I hear ya
That's a hell of a leap. Where did he say that? Answer: he didn't
Belboid, correct on all counts, except I would probably vote green, I was on the protest for the Iraqi guy who had sown his mouth up for instance, my beef is with a number of posters on here, but yes, sadly I do believe there is a 'hierarchy of oppression' not just with the left, but progressive society, on a number of occasions in the past, (i have largely given up now), i have been at a Palestine meeting, enviro meeting, etc tried to give leaving punters a flyer about basic issues and they have ignored it, but there have been also much wider examples of such a hierarchy.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
This thread is getting weirder. - not directed at you treelover!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Aye, anarchism has a great track record of changing the world
I wasn't aware that anarchism was predicated on "changing the world". I've always thought it was more about people changing themselves and their environment. Change from the bottom upward, rather than change via diktat. No g-ds and no leaders, no vanguard and definitely no bar-room revos.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The weirder the better.
I wasn't aware that anarchism was predicated on "changing the world". I've always thought it was more about people changing themselves and their environment. Change from the bottom upward, rather than change via diktat. No g-ds and no leaders, no vanguard and definitely no bar-room revos.
Okay, another century of sitting around bitching it is then
Spion
I hear ya
The last time I looked people lived in the world
If this quality is innate then presumably it's already happening, or happened, in which case I see nothing of note to be thankful for. If not then, presumably someone has to have the ideas first, ie to lead.Change from the bottom upward, rather than change via diktat. No g-ds and no leaders, no vanguard and definitely no bar-room revos.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
What you're saying isn't so much representative of a "hierarchy of oppression" as of a scrabble by a number of "the usual suspects" scrabbling to build/re-build their political base after yet another bunch of new recruits see through the hype. As for things like Israel/Palestine, you're always going to find some political issues that disproportionately draw attention. 50 years ago it was "the bomb", 40 years ago it was Vietnam etc etc. These issues provide political reference points, as much as anything else, for people to navigate by.
There are simple reasons why many political organisations, from unions to the trotlets, to the larger parties aren't interested in "bread and butter" issues, except in terms of how they can be taken advantage of, the simplest reason of all being that grass-roots work takes time and effort, and seldom delivers short-term political gain.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
We could start a Federation, and maybe a bitching social centre.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
We already have one of those in Liverpool
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
And...?
No-one is asking you to be thankful.
What do you think came first, motivation to organise, or the theorisation of an appropriate power structure in which to organise?
Have ideas = to lead.
Interesting, but very definitely a closed loop of the "head up own arse" type.
We could invite local people in to help them out with their bitching
Thats just cod-bitching
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I don't think anybody on here thinks that (well, tbaldwin, that stalwart of the Proper Left, might). It's more the idea that the lack of mass campaigns around this reflects a "hierarchy of oppression" on the part of the left that people object to.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Thats just cod-bitching
Too much praxis?
Not enough I'd say, this is what happens when you let mock-socialists loose on ideas
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Damn it, I'll never get this proper-Socialism thing right. I might just give up and buy a factory.
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