What does 'Proper' non-piscine Socialism involve?

[belboid]

utterly deluded applause.

there is no 'new left politics' developing - if there is, where the fuck is it? The 'hierarchy of oppression' doesnt exist and is a figment of treelovers imaginiation. And as for 'holier than thou' - oh the irony.

What there is, is a few right-wing pricks who pretend they are socialists, but then vote liberal, oppose strikers, and oppose people fighting back. If thats the kind of 'left wing' politics you want, you welcome to it, but no one is joining you,v oh sadly deluded ones.

 

[bluestreak]

I wonder if our resident real lefties realise that they are as much of a problem as the fishy left they hate? It's all part of the typical lefty infighting and inaction. This kind of Stalinist position that you take is as unappealing to the working classes of the UK as the high-minded middle-class liberal leftism.

 

[poster342002]

What there is, is a few right-wing pricks who pretend they are socialists, but then vote liberal, oppose strikers, and oppose people fighting back. If thats the kind of 'left wing' politics you want, you welcome to it, but no one is joining you,v oh sadly deluded ones.

What there is is a few mock-left pricks who pretend they are socialist, but then vote for Nu Labour (such as Livingstone), pretend strikes are happening that - de facto - aren't, and oppose people fightingback against problems the cod-elft insists don't exist. If thats the kind of 'left wing' politics you want, you welcome to it, but no one is joining you, oh sadly deluded ones, apsrt from the usual empty cans.

 

[Belushi]

pretend strikes are happening that - de facto - aren't

I've heard some desperate excuses for blacklegging in my time but that takes the biscuit.

 

[belboid]

well done, you just rewrote what I did without coming up with an argument Poster!

You with balders in voting Liberal?

Must be off, have to prepare for our union meeting where we have not one but two delegations of strikers attending - Shelter workers & Northern General Hospital Bulk Staff workers. Even tho they, apparently, dont exist! Crazy world....

 

[Spion]

oppose people fightingback against problems the cod-elft insists don't exist.

Such as? Who's opposing people fighting back against what?

 

[Spion]

oh, and with an average of only 15 reg posters a day, something is badly going wrong with P/P and its not Poster.

Yeah proably people going elsewhere who are sick of the demoralised, spineless, right wing garbage you and your ilk spew out day after day

 

[poster342002]

Must be off, have to prepare for our union meeting where we have not one but two delegations of strikers attending - Shelter workers & Northern General Hospital Bulk Staff workers. Even tho they, apparently, dont exist! Crazy world....

Yeah yeah .. and what's your membership turnout gonna be? How many turn up at your branch AGM?

Things is, belboid, ten years ago you'd have heard me arguing exactly the same lines as you are now.

 

[poster342002]

... and we're, predictably, now visited by the other pre-programmed Dalek.

 

[kabbes]

Completely unrelated to the thread, but how are Shelter and Northern General Hospital related to each other?

 

[belboid]

half a dozen, 2% of our membership. But that wasn't the point was it. you said those strikes don't exist. you haven't come up with any decent campaign that the 'cod left' are opposing, nor have you replied about voting Liberal, a la balders. No one, but absolutely no one, claims we are in a period of amazing upturn and heights of workers' struggle, we just don't deny they exist at all.

 

[belboid]

Completely unrelated to the thread, but how are Shelter and Northern General Hospital related to each other?

Shelter members are in my union & the Northern General is just up the road from us, so both are relevant to our members.

 

[poster342002]

Yeah proably people going elsewhere who are sick of the demoralised, spineless, right wing garbage you and your ilk spew out day after day

The shriller and more often you yell this, the more hollow, unconvincing and desperate it begins to sound.

You're part of 'yesterday's men' - you just don't realise it yet.

 

[Spion]

If it quacks and it has a beak it's most likely a duck

If it excuses strike-breaking and calls for immigration controls it's mostly likely a spineless ex-leftist

 

[poster342002]

And if it reeks of stinky old fish that's decades past it's sell-by date, it's probably the cod-left.

 

[treelover]

Spion, in Trotland, you may be right, but in the real world, its the old story of Mrs Miggins watching her son on the parade ground making a mess of it all and remarking, 'oh look at Johnny he is the only one in step'!


your political time is up.....

 

[treelover]

btw this is so unproductive, a call to general posters, please join p/p

 

[Spion]

Spion, in Trotland, you may be right, but in the real world, its the old story of Mrs Miggins watching her son on the parade ground making a mess of it all and remarking, 'oh look at Johnny he is the only one in step'!

So, you think if the world moves rightwards leftists must chase behind? Or should we attempt to assess the world objectively and stand firm on certain principles?

You seem to seem to favour the former - and I've no idea what your principles are - do you have any, if so what are they?

 

[bluestreak]

The leftiests vote right, the rightists vote left, we still get screwed. Try anarchism guys

 

[tarannau]

Yeah proably people going elsewhere who are sick of the demoralised, spineless, right wing garbage you and your ilk spew out day after day

<applauds> Yep. Seeing as Treelover, Poster and the 4x4 driving Tory Boy seems to indulge in a circle jerk of mutual backslapping as a matter of course, it's only fair that we do the same.

Should we try our best to emulate their lack of substance, their inability to back up their views with evidence and paper-shallow repetitive posting technique then? Or are they mock right specialities?

 

[Belushi]

The leftiests vote right, the rightists vote left, we still get screwed. Try anarchism guys

Aye, anarchism has a great track record of changing the world

 

[bluestreak]

it'd be nice to get a chance to try!

 

[Spion]

The leftiests vote right, the rightists vote left, we still get screwed. Try anarchism guys

Are you telling us what to do? Vanguardist!

 

[Spion]

it'd be nice to get a chance to try!

it never will tho, because of its weird contradictions on the issue of leadership.

 

[Belushi]

it'd be nice to get a chance to try!

You have to take the chance not wait for it to be given!

On a serious note I do think that some kind of Libertarian Socialism is the way forward for the British Left if it ever wants to break out of the activist ghetto.

 

[treelover]

It had a go in parts of Spain, and you could argue the autonomous regions of Chiapas are vaguely based on anarchist principles.

 

[Belushi]

Are you telling us what to do? Vanguardist!

Heh

 

[belboid]

Spion, in Trotland, you may be right, but in the real world, its the old story of Mrs Miggins watching her son on the parade ground making a mess of it all and remarking, 'oh look at Johnny he is the only one in step'!


your political time is up.....

Come on treelover, you don’t actually agree with most of the guff baldy & poster are arguing tho do you? Unlike them you would unequivocally support a teachers strike, you wouldn’t vote Liberal to defeat ‘the racist Ken’ (in fact you'll probly vote Labour wont you?), and you would defend asylum seekers (even if you think the ‘left’ do that too much to the detriment of other issues). Those are the grounds they are being criticised for her – and it is notable that neither have made any attempt to respond to the criticisms of their viewpoints put above, except with sneers and pathetic ‘ooh, you’re so old-fashioned and out of date’ baloney

Where is this 'new left' you spoke of?

 

[nino_savatte]

Hang on, who are you calling a racist?

Oh, the irony.

 

[butchersapron]

Sorry, i don't follow you nino. Could you explain yourself please?