What Does Asylum Cost?

[TremulousTetra]

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[tbaldwin]

*Reads RMP3 and Balders posts*

*grins*

These two posts demostrate WHY socialism/communism has failed to set the world alight - Balders because there is this awul authoritarian 'We do what's best for 'the majority' (and who exactly decides that),

Who decides that is THE CRUCIAL QUESTION if it is the ruling central committee elected by democratic centralism like Eastern European style socialism the SWP etc forget it.
But if is decided by the majority of the people then i see that as the best option.
Who would you rather ruled the majority of the people or a ruling elite?

 

[Fruitloop]

I've just been banned by butchers at the starrey place.

Okay I take it back.

One day they'll wake up and find they have to ban ernestolynch, and then their journey to the dark side will be complete.

 

[Fruitloop]

Who decides that is THE CRUCIAL QUESTION if it is the ruling central committee elected by democratic centralism like Eastern European style socialism the SWP etc forget it.
But if is decided by the majority of the people then i see that as the best option.
Who would you rather ruled the majority of the people or a ruling elite?

Tough choice actually. A ruling elite rules amorally but rationally in its own interests, whereas to be held at the often proleptic whim of the majority can be a dangerous thing indeed.

 

[tbaldwin]

Tough choice actually. A ruling elite rules amorally but rationally in its own interests, whereas to be held at the often proleptic whim of the majority can be a dangerous thing indeed.

So here we all are then.........

Thats a bit Maggie Thatcher,General Pinochet,Stalin,SWP for me...

 

[Fruitloop]

So here we all are then.........

Thats a bit Maggie Thatcher,General Pinochet,Stalin,SWP for me...

Needless to say I think there are circumstances preferable to all of the above. Who knows what lunacies would attend the Swappies in power?

 

[talby]

According to this report, it's £1bn per year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/30/nclarke230.xml

"It also reduces the bill for supporting asylum-seekers, which is £1 billion a year."

Probably worth taking with a pinch of salt given it's a government statistic.

 

[Fruitloop]

Makes that £82 billion or whatever it is in unpaid business tax look mighty tasty.

 

[mk12]

No, him being to authoritrian. You know what a arrogant fuck he is.

I believe you had your account suspended for a few hours whilst they confirmed your identity, but you didn't prove it to anyone. All sorted now though!

 

[howardsenter]

For those white working class people who are dependent on social housing the cost is far too high. Dealing with asylum seekers has been part of my job description for the last three years and in that time I can say I have rarely met a genuine 'seeker' as opposed to an economic migrant.


If anyone has any doubt as to the desperation and confusion of the comrades one only has to look at 'Respect'. Those of us with a little memory can recall the SWP banging on against popualr frontism for years only to now ally itself with the homophobes and misogynists of radical Islam.I am sickened by the middle class left and it's out sourcing post-colonial guilt on to the British working class and that is why, in spite of being a life long leftist, I shall be happy to cast my vote for the BNP.

 

[tbaldwin]

Howard,do you believe in a worldwide Jewish conspiracy etc etc..

It is one thing to be against economic migration and be pissed off at people lying to get in the country etc but something quite different to vote for a load of nazi apologists.

 

[JHE]

If anyone has any doubt as to the desperation and confusion of the comrades one only has to look at 'Respect'. Those of us with a little memory can recall the SWP banging on against popualr frontism for years only to now ally itself with the homophobes and misogynists of radical Islam.I am sickened by the middle class left and it's out sourcing post-colonial guilt on to the British working class and that is why, in spite of being a life long leftist, I shall be happy to cast my vote for the BNP.

You make a fair point about Respec' - but if you're pissed off by cross-class alliances ('popular fronts' in Trotspeak) infested with anti-gay nutters and keen supporters of the subjugation of women, the BNP is not an obvious political home for you.

 

[audiotech]

For those white working class people who are dependent on social housing the cost is far too high. Dealing with asylum seekers has been part of my job description for the last three years and in that time I can say I have rarely met a genuine 'seeker' as opposed to an economic migrant.


If anyone has any doubt as to the desperation and confusion of the comrades one only has to look at 'Respect'. Those of us with a little memory can recall the SWP banging on against popualr frontism for years only to now ally itself with the homophobes and misogynists of radical Islam.I am sickened by the middle class left and it's out sourcing post-colonial guilt on to the British working class and that is why, in spite of being a life long leftist, I shall be happy to cast my vote for the BNP.

If your memory's that long you'll also remember the present leader of the BNP meeting with Islamic extremists when he was in the NF. He supported Ayatollah Khomeini’s fundamentalist regime in Iran, and sought backing from Libya’s Colonel Gaddafi.

 

[howardsenter]

If your memory's that long you'll also remember the present leader of the BNP meeting with Islamic extremists when he was in the NF. He supported Ayatollah Khomeini’s fundamentalist regime in Iran, and sought backing from Libya’s Colonel Gaddafi.

Oh yes I remember it well It is true that he had a mutated anti-colonial almost leftist position at that time. However, he would seem to have moved on whereas in the very real present one can point to very large sections of the left that are allied forces that are positively medieval. Of course the crunch will come when Islamic councillors elected under the Respect banner start making moves agaisnt homosexuals and non-muslim minority groups. I think that even the mighty Alex Callinicos may have difficulty in explaining the progressive dialectic behind that one.

 

[howardsenter]

You make a fair point about Respec' - but if you're pissed off by cross-class alliances ('popular fronts' in Trotspeak) infested with anti-gay nutters and keen supporters of the subjugation of women, the BNP is not an obvious political home for you.

I can see your point but the point I was trying to make was the ideological contortions major parts of the left to keep it's boat afloat. As I am sure you can understand particulalr disagreements on what Marceau Pivert was doing vis-a-vis the SFIO in 1936 are of little real importance to me.

On demographics alone Europe on it's present trajectory will be Isalmic within say one hundered and fifty years. Lest anyone has any quibbles about this, we are not talking about the relatively benign and progressive Islam of the Abbasid and Andalucain caliphates, we are talking about full blown Wahabism. With that in mind I think that it is entirley logical to support the people who will fight against this what ever the details of their programme. I mean to say I am not particualrly ken on Fox hunting although I understand Lenin and Trotsky were keen hunters.

 

[Fruitloop]

I'm gonna be so dead in 150 years time

 

[howardsenter]

I'm gonna be so dead in 150 years time

Even though you are , by your own admission, a wanker, you have still managed to demonstrate one of the problems with post 60's 'liberal' hedonism.

 

[talby]

I am sickened by the middle class left and it's outsourcing post-colonial guilt on to the British working class

Apologies, I realise it adds nothing to the debate, but I just had to repost that comment - it sums up exactly how I feel. I'm am "old" leftie too, with a knife in my back.

 

[treelover]

so do i, i'm sick to the back teeth of liberals with very comfortable lives telling us
what is good for us, i don't blame migrants, its a natural inclination to want the best for yourself and your family, but there has been little debate on mass immigartion, the left has also totally ignored the precarity and insecurity felt by many w/class/ people on welfare and we should also be clear, capital actually likes a form of no borders.

the BNP are certainly not the answer though

Originally Posted by howardsenter
I am sickened by the middle class left and it's outsourcing post-colonial guilt on to the British working class