What Does Asylum Cost?

[TremulousTetra]

also, when discussing the "costs" of asylum, you'd have to take into account the numbers of "failed" asylum seekers whose cases have been thrown out on the basis of poor Home Office decision making, who have no options of returning home, and so who consequently have no option other than to work illegally.

feel free mate to come up with any figure you feel reasonable. I am pretty confident from what I've learned so far, that in the scheme of things it will be a pretty insignificant figure. from what I have seen so far, it is certainly a figure that is not worthy of the amount of discussion it provokes in the media and parliament etc.

Respect ResistanceMP3

 

[Blagsta]

erm, I'm not talking about fash/fash sympathisers, I mean people have left this site who have a long history of anti facism/anti-racism, not racists, perhaps they got fed up of insinuations and smears from armchair warriors.

You seem to have that pretty much arse about tit.

 

[Fong]

There is also this cost which people tend to ignore.

The cost is both monetary and a cost to society as a whole.

Over 1,000 immigrants let free from prison to roam out cities and countryside, including 3 murderers, 9 rapists, 5 paedophiles and 7 sex offenders.

The thing that makes you laugh the most is the reason given for their release without deportation and the subsequent 'losing' of them into society.

Because there are so many immigrants in prison that they can't keep track of them all.

 

[tbaldwin]

Costs who?
It kind of depends if your talking in the National Interest?????
Or you see that different groups within one country have different interests?
Are the interests of landlords and bosses the same as workers competing for jobs and housing.
Are the interests of people from countries other than the UK being costed?
Or is this just about the Nationalist interest?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Costs who?
It kind of depends if your talking in the National Interest?????
Or you see that different groups within one country have different interests?
Are the interests of landlords and bosses the same as workers competing for jobs and housing.
Are the interests of people from countries other than the UK being costed?
Or is this just about the Nationalist interest?

the people I talk to are not revolutionary socialist, they are ordinary people who engage in the debate which is framed and formatted by the politicians, the media, and the bourgeoisie. Now many of the ordinary people[1], politicians, and "experts" are claiming the funding of asylum is so expensive it is effecting NHS, education, housing etc etc funding. This quite plainly isn't true. So I am asking for a piece of essential information that needs to be in a public domain before any reasonable conversation/debate can be taken on the topic. Why is this figure never discussed? I seriously believe more money could be being spent discussing this topic, than that actually goes to asylum seekers. In fact I'm pretty certain of it, but I'm willing to be proved wrong if you have some information from me.


[1]as an example, I could give you a link to another forum where a "comedy" song has been posted which has been written by BNP supporters, which is quite plainly ludicrous in what is he suggesting, and yet so many ordinary people accept it as fact of at least 80 or 90% true.

 

[TremulousTetra]

There is also this cost which people tend to ignore.

The cost is both monetary and a cost to society as a whole.

Over 1,000 immigrants let free from prison to roam out cities and countryside, including 3 murderers, 9 rapists, 5 paedophiles and 7 sex offenders.

The thing that makes you laugh the most is the reason given for their release without deportation and the subsequent 'losing' of them into society.

Because there are so many immigrants in prison that they can't keep track of them all.

unable to contribute any facts and information on the topic of the thread you go off onto a spurious angle. I do not choose to ignore this topic, feel free, quantify the costs on this particular issue with all the others involved come up with an answer to the question of this thread, please? The only thing I've seen so far that actually goes to asylum seekers is 1.5 million. The vast majority of the money that is spent on the asylum seekers seems to be spent on stopping them receiving a paltry amount of assistance to such an extent it seems economically at least, irrational. Of course I could be wrong, so feel free to provide the evidence to prove I am.

Respects ResistanceMP3

 

[Barking_Mad]

So what does it cost? We seem to hear that the war in Iraq is costing about 6 billion per year. We have figures for the NHS, education, unemployment benefits etc etc. Now the cost of asylum is being blamed for undermining the funding of almost everything by some people. So what is the cost? So we can compare it to the general scale of things. Has anybody seen any estimates of the total figure per year?

ResistanceMP3

I dont think £6bn a year is right for Iraq. I thinkim right in saying that the cost after 3 years was £4bn. I did try to get myMP to sk this question in Parliament, but he seemed not to bother. Quelle surprise.

 

[Pigeon]

feel free mate to come up with any figure you feel reasonable. I am pretty confident from what I've learned so far, that in the scheme of things it will be a pretty insignificant figure. from what I have seen so far, it is certainly a figure that is not worthy of the amount of discussion it provokes in the media and parliament etc.

Respect ResistanceMP3

Point I was making was rather that the people in this position, having no recourse to any public funds, still actually contribute in terms of taxation and also contribute to the net profits of supermarkets and other business interests cos of their lack of employment rights.

On another tack, any discussion of the "costs" of the asylum system would need to consider the handsome revenues collected by local authorities on properties they'd be unable to rent out to people with any degree of choice about where they live, plus the pfofits sucked up by the likes of the Angel Group. Whatever sum of money anyone cares to float around, you can bet yr bollocks not much of it gets seen by asylum seekers.

 

[Pigeon]

There is also this cost which people tend to ignore.

The cost is both monetary and a cost to society as a whole.

Over 1,000 immigrants let free from prison to roam out cities and countryside, including 3 murderers, 9 rapists, 5 paedophiles and 7 sex offenders.

The thing that makes you laugh the most is the reason given for their release without deportation and the subsequent 'losing' of them into society.

Because there are so many immigrants in prison that they can't keep track of them all.

Are these "1000 immigrants" asylum seekers? If you must blur the boundaries of anything approaching a sensible discussion, don't bleat when people conclude you're a racist, there's a good chap.

 

[Geoff Collier]

There is one factor here not considered; Asylum seekers are not allowed to get jobs, and therefore have to live on benefits/charities etc. They are therefore a drain on the economy, or to be more accurate the absurd rules ensure they are a drain. (although its worth bearing in mind they have benefits to spend on products and services - therefore a small contribution towards the employment of others). If their applications for asylum are accepted then they become classed as refugees not asylum seekers and the rules change. So what you need to consider is whether you are talking about the costs and contributions of asylum seekers, refugees or both, and over what period of time.

Another aspect to consider is the cost of the bureaucracy surrounding it, administration of asylum applications, legal aid for challenging decisions, removal of unsuccesful applications etc.

What do you mean by a "drain on the economy"? If an asylum seeker is given £35 per week (or whatever the figure is now) is the money actually wasted? That's "wasted" in the sense of being lost forever like bullets and missiles are. Or does it get recycled in the economy?

 

[Drugged_Unholy]

What do you mean by a "drain on the economy"? If an asylum seeker is given £35 per week (or whatever the figure is now) is the money actually wasted? That's "wasted" in the sense of being lost forever like bullets and missiles are. Or does it get recycled in the economy?

Thats actually what I was getting at with the sentance written in brackets afterwards.

I think perhaps a better way of putting it is the cost to the welfare state for aslyum seekers, or the cost of making a stupid law that prevents asylum seekers from working legally.

 

[tbaldwin]

Legal fees...State support for things like the Refugee legal dept.....Support groups paid for by charities and the lottery etc.
Its a huge amount of money. Immigration lawyers alone cost mega millions.
The amount that goes directly to asylum seekers is going to be a very small proportion of overall costs.

 

[CyberRose]

Is there a law against asylum seekers having a job for a certain amount of time?

I recall reading a (Guardian?) article on the costs of asylum seekers versus the amount they would pay back if they all worked that they would create more revenue from taxes than are spent on asylum. It might even have been the current state of things?

 

[tbaldwin]

How many Millions do people think are spent on Immigration lawyers?

 

[Giles]

Why do people spend so much time whinging on about how asylum seekers, immigrants of whatever colour, etc, are "taking our jobs"? Or somehow getting more than they should?

Focus on winning, then you won't have to worry about how "they're taking our houses/jobs/swans" etc, will you?

Worked for me.

Giles..

 

[Dhimmi]

And ignoring those who have jobs and are paying taxes back into the community need counting in too.

Asylum Seekers aren't permitted to work, so that's a grand total of zero.

 

[Drugged_Unholy]

Is there a law against asylum seekers having a job for a certain amount of time?

Yes, asylum seekers aren't allowed any job at any time. If their claim for asylum is succesful then they are classed as refugees not asylum seekers, and the rules change enabling them to work.

 

[winterinmoscow]

Yes, asylum seekers aren't allowed any job at any time. If their claim for asylum is succesful then they are classed as refugees not asylum seekers, and the rules change enabling them to work.

That's true but there is another possibility. If they can show that nothing has happened on their claim for 12 months and that the delay's not their fault they can apply for permission to work. It seems like that part of the Home Office is surprisingly quick at processing those applications.

Call me cynical...?

 

[FruitandNut]

Bring them all in, let's play open house to the troubles of the world. Our country is of course massive and can house millions more without impacting on the ecology or society.

 

[winterinmoscow]

Bring them all in, let's play open house to the troubles of the world. Our country is of course massive and can house millions more without impacting on the ecology or society.

Okay well before I even think about replying, are you for real?

I ask because:

a) if you're joking, great

b) if you really mean that BUT might be arsed to read further into this thread, I might reply

c) if you really than AND are just up for saying your piece and leaving, I can not be bothered.

 

[Blagsta]

The thing that seems to be being missed here, is that parts of the economy rely on employing asylum seekers or illegal immigrants cos they can be paid shit money for long hours. The hospitality industry in London for example seems to rely a lot on illegal workers.

 

[tbaldwin]

The thing that seems to be being missed here, is that parts of the economy rely on employing asylum seekers or illegal immigrants cos they can be paid shit money for long hours. The hospitality industry in London for example seems to rely a lot on illegal workers.

Good point.
Immigration is werlcomed of course by people who benefit from it. Shit employers,shit landlords, lawyers etc
For people competing with newly arrived immigrants for jobs and housing its a very different story.
Most Black and Asian people are firmly against more economic migration.
Racist liberals think this is pulling the drawbridge up syndrome.... Which just shows them up for the Racist Idiots they are.

 

[Giles]

Good point.
Immigration is werlcomed of course by people who benefit from it. Shit employers,shit landlords, lawyers etc
For people competing with newly arrived immigrants for jobs and housing its a very different story.
Most Black and Asian people are firmly against more economic migration.
Racist liberals think this is pulling the drawbridge up syndrome.... Which just shows them up for the Racist Idiots they are.

Oh stop whinging. The kind of people who come here for a better life want to achieve this better life by working, not by dole-scrounging. So what's wrong with that?

Giles..

 

[tbaldwin]

Oh stop whinging. The kind of people who come here for a better life want to achieve this better life by working, not by dole-scrounging. So what's wrong with that?

Giles..

Depends what way you look at it? If you look at it in Nationalist terms as you seem to be, probably not much. If you look at in Internationalist terms.Loads.
If you look at it,in Class terms quite a lot.

 

[Pigeon]

Racist ...Racist

 

[Giles]

Depends what way you look at it? If you look at it in Nationalist terms as you seem to be, probably not much. If you look at in Internationalist terms.Loads.
If you look at it,in Class terms quite a lot.

Why is it a bad thing for people to come here to get jobs, especially jobs that most people don't want to do? It doesn't bother me.

Giles..

 

[CyberRose]

Why is it a bad thing for people to come here to get jobs, especially jobs that most people don't want to do? It doesn't bother me.

Giles..

Yea I see alot of people come over from the new EU states and get crap factory jobs. At the moment, our economy is such that there aren't enuf people to do these jobs and British recruitment agencies are active in these new EU states searching for people to come over and take up the jobs. This kind of immigration is obviously different from asylum/refugees as 1) they have the right to work here and 2) it wont cost anything in benefits etc. Not only that the extra taxes created are an obvious benefit.

If asylum seekers were allowed to work their taxes would cover the cost of what is spent on them (probably more than cover it)

 

[Blagsta]

Good point.
Immigration is werlcomed of course by people who benefit from it. Shit employers,shit landlords, lawyers etc
For people competing with newly arrived immigrants for jobs and housing its a very different story.
Most Black and Asian people are firmly against more economic migration.
Racist liberals think this is pulling the drawbridge up syndrome.... Which just shows them up for the Racist Idiots they are.

you were doing OK until you started wanking on about liberals and race...

 

[Blagsta]

Why is it a bad thing for people to come here to get jobs, especially jobs that most people don't want to do? It doesn't bother me.

Giles..

its driving wages down in some sectors

 

[tbaldwin]

you were doing OK until you started wanking on about liberals and race...

The reason i always wank on about liberals and race is they keep getting things so wrong.
Maybe they are full of good intentions but there views on economic migration etc are shockingly stupid.