What do you think of Israel's response to Hezbollah capturing their soldiers?

[Sasaferrato]

as far as i know atm it's in response to over 100 children taken from their homes each and every day and dissappeared or face trumpted up charges and locked up for 5 to 10 that has been doing it ...

When they say release women and children this is really what they want...

so the maths goes that 100 children a day dissappear with out their parents knowing what has happened to them and it gets......

...Zero Coverage. nothing. nada.

one isreali solider get's taken as a prisoner of war.....

24 our live coverage....

world media is flown in to do round the clock footage of this breaking story...

a 3 hour speacail on the life and times of the good corperal...

no coverage at all mentioning why they were where they were...

pundits creeping out of the wood work to say how this is to be expected of a (demoncratically elected on a non islamic platform) "terrorist" govt...

ffs it'll be rosettes plates and souviner mugs soon...

and it worked it made a weak isreali govt sit up and ask wtf are we going to do... olmert isn't considered a great military stragist in the way that sharron was. If unilateral boarders are going to be decided by isreal then the only logical reaction to it is to create a delaying tactic which suppers the deal...

lo and behold the " terrorists" inist that shilat will be treated under favourable terms and will not be harmed. to all intents a purposes say PoW geneva convention applies...

Hezbollah decide that isreal is not looking their way and is fed up of the cross boarder raids that it'll do the same...

isreal looking for any reaon why the siryan siding (at least publicily) lebanon govt not to have to resolve the trick problem of the golan heighs hand over of lebaise land to siryia in that region. attach all the blame with it in beruit...

isreal and lebanon go to war and thus it distracts totally from the fact that the settlement building will continue hiddle behind the smoke screen of war...

A real possiblity of lebanon under hezbollah guise will march into isreal.... possible occupation of isreal....

either way the palestinians are still under all that loosing 100 children a day taken as PoW's dissappeared or jailed. gaza will still be bombed ever day, and every night... mal'la adumim will still be expanding ... bethlehem encircled so that were baby jesus to come back today and attempt to get to jeruslem the messiah would have to obtain the approprate boarder pass and cross through countless "military security stops" at gun point that by the time he got there budda would have beat him to it.... and budda is a fat man...

end of the begining begining of the end??

might finally mean that the palestinian issue cannot be ignored any more... but then what? It's not exactly in the best intrests of military mega corps to have a peaceful and stable region... where's the need for the ransacking of the natral resources and constantly having to upgrade the weapons cos the other side seem to mysteriously keep getting more sophisiticated weapons, no crack like addiction on money from the west...dollars y'all understand.....

Let me get this right, Israel is kidnapping 100 Palestinian children every day and their is no comment from anyone on it? Utter and absolute rubbish.

Substantiate that or withdraw it.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Perhaps you'd like to add up the number (and severity) of rocket attacks on Israel and the number (and severity) of rocket and other attacks on the Palestinians and Lebanon ...

You suggest Israel are entirely sinned against. They are not. Fact.

As an ex member of what has been slated as the most corrupt police force in the country, I quite understand that you are now incapable of separating fact from fiction.

Join your mayor in Jew baiting, seems quite fashionable in London these days.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Sinn Fein brought the IRA in from the cold to stop the violence. The government of Lebanon defends the right for Hezbollah to attack Israel and the same goes for Palestine and Hamas. If they spoke out against it or tried to stop it then the parallel would be applicable but they don't. Engaging in politics instead of bullets? I think you've forgotten the hundreds of rockets and bombs fired by the Hezbollah into northern Israel which killed civilians not three days ago.

Hezbollah want trouble and the Israeli's are going to bring it to them. Instead of trying to excuse Lebanon for the trouble they have brought on themselves and their people why don't you ask yourself why the Hezbollah don't simply return the captured Israeli soldiers? If Israel are trying to start a war with a sham excuse then for fucks sake expose the excuse, return the solders and if Israel don't withdraw then they will lose support from the west and will be exposed, once more, as a militant nation. There is only one reason why the Hezbollah don't do this and it's a sickening one.

Well put.

 

[Termite Man]

As an ex member of what has been slated as the most corrupt police force in the country, I quite understand that you are now incapable of separating fact from fiction.

Join your mayor in Jew baiting, seems quite fashionable in London these days.

Just because people disagree with the actions of the israeli state doesn't mean their jew bating . I don't expect such piss poor arguments from you sas .

I voted over the top because I don't think this military action will result in the release of the jewish soldier , which is what the israelis want , unless of course they are using it to reach other unstated ends !

And Hizbollah and Hamas are just as bad , unfortunatly they just don't have the destructive weapons israel has at it's disposal !

 

[Sasaferrato]

Just because people disagree with the actions of the israeli state doesn't mean their jew bating . I don't expect such piss poor arguments from you sas .

I voted over the top because I don't think this military action will result in the release of the jewish soldier , which is what the israelis want , unless of course they are using it to reach other unstated ends !

And Hizbollah and Hamas are just as bad , unfortunatly they just don't have the destructive weapons israel has at it's disposal !

Yes, you're right. The comment was unjustified and I withdraw it.

 

[pk]

Not in this corner of Britain they're not, not indeed in any corner that supports action against murdering terrorist filth.

But you support the murdering terrorist filth, otherwise more commonly known as the Israeli army...

 

[Roadkill]

There is no justification for this. None.

Israel - and its cheerleaders - seem happy to kill civilians by the hundred but unable to accept that people might wish to do the same to them. Smells of hypocrisy to me. As does the fact that, as Garf says, killings of Lebanese (or Palestinian) civilians is a footnote, whereas the kidnap of three Israeli soldier is headline news. Would that it were true that, as someone said, Israel is using up its reserves of sympathy...

It's morally unjustifiable, and it's also dangerous and unproductive. There's no way Israel can beat Hezbollah without flattening most of southern Lebanon, and as they begin to do so they can only inflame more tension across the region. If Syria are dragged in Iran might well follow, and then what?

 

[Grandma Death]

Join your mayor in Jew baiting, seems quite fashionable in London these days.

I find your tendancy to use terms like jew baiting quite fucking offensive.

 

[Neva]

Responding to Roadkill's hypothetical.

Then Israel and the U.S. go in and wipe the floor with the lot of them. The U.S. under the pretext of helping out Israel against terrorism. There would be no action against either because as much as countries in the middle east have a problem with Israel, all the major world powers have a problem with Iran trying to develop Nuclear Weapons. America will do everyone a favour by bombing Iran's nuclear programme back ten/fifteen years and all the world will look on because they are more worried about Iran getting nukes than they are about civilian casualties for Syria and Lebanon. Luckily the mess Israel will leave those respective countries in will be so bad that the world's media will cry their favourite worlds 'Humanitarian Disaster' and Britain, France and all the rest will be able to appease their conscious by donating money and food.

Well that's how I see that particular circumstance going anyway but I don't, or I hope anyway, that Iran doesn't get involved.

 

[lunatrick]

Iran doesn't get involved.

but my understanding is they fund and support hezbollah?

 

[Grandma Death]

but my understanding is they fund and support hezbollah?

Indirectly and allegedly-I've never seen proof but I wouldnt be surprised if they did.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Responding to Roadkill's hypothetical.

Then Israel and the U.S. go in and wipe the floor with the lot of them. The U.S. under the pretext of helping out Israel against terrorism. There would be no action against either because as much as countries in the middle east have a problem with Israel, all the major world powers have a problem with Iran trying to develop Nuclear Weapons. America will do everyone a favour by bombing Iran's nuclear programme back ten/fifteen years and all the world will look on because they are more worried about Iran getting nukes than they are about civilian casualties for Syria and Lebanon. Luckily the mess Israel will leave those respective countries in will be so bad that the world's media will cry their favourite worlds 'Humanitarian Disaster' and Britain, France and all the rest will be able to appease their conscious by donating money and food.

Well that's how I see that particular circumstance going anyway but I don't, or I hope anyway, that Iran doesn't get involved.

Not quite the whole story.

Iran have expressed the wish to complete a nuclear fuel production cycle to fuel a test reactor and then eventually expand into nuclear-powered electricity generation, and although the product and the "waste product" of the fuel cycle are enriched, they're not enriched enough for weapons use. That'd require separate facilities which the IAEA have clearly stated would be easily monitored, given that their previous inspection have left them with a clear inventory of the contents of Irans' nuclear laboratories and facilities. What they don't have is the capability to further enrich the uranium for weapons use, and they have no way of constructing such kit either because they don't have the engineering facilities and know-how.

The whole "nukes" thing is a pretext, a pretext based on a possibility that perhaps, 10 years down the line, Iran might have enough know-how and materiel from fuel cycles to actually have the building blocks for a small nuclear weapon, but then they need the trigger and other hard to get ancilliary devices that they can't manufacture themselves...

 

[ViolentPanda]

but my understanding is they fund and support hezbollah?

They might, but it's difficult to tell. There are probably more "trails" leading back to factions in Syria that to Iran.

The main reason Iran get put in the frame for funding is that Hezbollah are (mostly) Shia, as are many Iranians.

 

[jiggajagga]

Israel seem to work on 'an eye for an eye' basis.
Wasn't it Ghandi who said "The trouble with an eye for an eye is that eventually everyone ends up blind".
How we could do with a Ghandi now in these parts........Or a Jesus figure?

 

[fishfingerer]

I suspect that the IRA would actually have been pursued by the Dublin government, rather than the lip service to pursuance which was in fact observed by Dublin.

You don't have a fucking clue.

 

[Pingu]

i dont have a lot of time for a lot of stuff that goes on in the middle east, far too murkey to work out what has really gone on.


but this time i think israel has overreacted and its probably going to get a bit shitty(er) out there as a result.

 

[Grandma Death]

Or a Jesus figure?

Here you go....Jesus finger...............
















Sorry just realised you said jesus figure

 

[thefuse]

I sat next to a young Saudi guy on the plane the other day who was at Beirut airport when the Israeli bombers flew in and trashed the runway.
He said everyone was running away, including the soldiers and police and his mates had left all their luggage behind.
He said it was the worst day of his life.
Wasn't til i saw the papers that I realised how lucky he'd been to get away in one piece.

 

[mauvais]

I agree with D-B, and hope it holds true that the traditional Western supporters begin to shun Israel. There's been a mild swing in that direction recently, with places like Switzerland commenting on their behaviour, but it's hard as yet to define it as a pattern.

The way I see it is that all of this behaviour is the product of an immature nation. Politically, almost everything they do is kneejerk and violent. There's no thought involved - no measure, no weighting, no care, no consideration of the long term, just the simplest and crudest response available, every time. I trust it's not sustainable, and that something has to give.

Potential for rather interesting politics in our despatch of Navy resources to evacuate civilians, don't you think?

 

[Sasaferrato]

But you support the murdering terrorist filth, otherwise more commonly known as the Israeli army...

Mmmmmmmmmm, one is a legally constituted body, a functionary of the state, the other is an ill asorted rabble of abusers of brainwashed young people. I know which I would pick, but then again, I have this quite absurd view that if a country is attacked, it has the right to defend itself, this defence may carry the battle over the enemies borders.

 

[mauvais]

So as long as they wear a uniform?

I'll spare us the delights of poor old Godwin's Law.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You don't have a fucking clue.

Oh yeah? That'll include Haughey, I take it,who was under suspicion of running guns for the IRA, and a lot else besides.

 

[Sasaferrato]

So as long as they wear a uniform?

I'll spare us the delights of poor old Godwin's Law.

You really don't have a clue, do you?

 

[pk]

Mmmmmmmmmm, one is a legally constituted body,

That acts illegally and in direct contravention of the Geneva Conventions.

the other is an ill asorted rabble of abusers of brainwashed young people.

If you mean Hamas - they were democratically elected too!

I know which I would pick, but then again, I have this quite absurd view that if a country is attacked, it has the right to defend itself, this defence may carry the battle over the enemies borders.

Then the repercussions will echo for years, and Israel has no right to play the part of the wronged party when the terrible acts of retribution continue.

 

[mauvais]

Please, do correct me if I'm wrong, but what you said was:

Mmmmmmmmmm, one is a legally constituted body, a functionary of the state, the other is an ill asorted rabble of abusers of brainwashed young people. I know which I would pick

You seem to imply that you make your political choice based on their... err, presentation. A number of historical scenarios immediately spring to mind. Is this really what you mean?

As for brainwashing, I can only imagine that you believe the IDF is composed of individuals making their own personal moral judgements and carrying out their duties in a way compatible with this intellectual freedom.

Mind you, I suppose I really don't have a clue, or something equally incisive, so I'll leave you to it.

 

[kained&able]

Mmmmmmmmmm, one is a legally constituted body, a functionary of the state, the other is an ill asorted rabble of abusers of brainwashed young people. I know which I would pick, but then again, I have this quite absurd view that if a country is attacked, it has the right to defend itself, this defence may carry the battle over the enemies borders.

then isreal should declare war on lebenon. I'm pretty sure hezbollah doesnt have borders as they aint in gov.


dave

 

[Grandma Death]

Mmmmmmmmmm, one is a legally constituted body, a functionary of the state, the other is an ill asorted rabble of abusers of brainwashed young people.

One is a state imposed on the indiginous peoples without consent of the people and goes on to dsiplace millions of people from their homelands and continues to flout international law. The other is poorly armed small in number terrorist organisation/freedom fighter who is a REACTION to the ACTIONS of the aformentioned state.

Get with the programme. Israel has been handing this group of 'terrorists/freedom fighters' the bullets for their gun/war by acting like a true bully state. Crushing any resistance with an iron fist and indiscrimenantly killing children as young as five-and you have the balls to say people walking on a bus blowing up kids is somehow different to actions of that state.

You need to wake up to this-your ignorance on this matter is shocking. You somehow pretend that what Israel does is somehow morally different to what the palestinians are doing? You're living in a dream world.

The numbers are staggering; one in five Palestinian dead is a child. The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) says at least 408 Palestinian children have been killed since the beginning of the intifada in September 2000. Nearly half were killed in the Gaza strip, and most of those died in two refugee camps in the south, Khan Yunis and Rafah. The PCHR says they were victims of "indiscriminate shooting, excessive force, a shoot-to-kill policy and the deliberate targeting of children".


LINK

 

[mauvais]

Yeah, but don't they look professional?

As far as I'm concerned, if their shirts are tucked in, their hats are on straight and they've filled out all the paperwork, who cares what they actually do?

 

[T & P]

You will be referring to Hamas and Hezbollah, I take it? Or do you support terrorism, ah I see, terrorism is OK, as long as it isn't Jewish ' terorism '.

Er no I was referring to Israel, seeing as it was what the op was asking. Do keep up.

 

[newharper]

Oh come on let's get a little real here.

Israel, was one of the major sponsors of Hamas.

Starting in the late 1970s Israel helped build up the most fanatical and intolerant fundamentalist Muslims as rivals to the nationalist PLO. The terrorist organization Hamas is largely an Israeli creation. A UPI story last year quoted a U.S. government official as saying: "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the other groups, if they gained control, would refuse to have anything to do with the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place."

The PLO has long been aware of Israeli strategy. In their 1989 book, Intifada, Ze'ev Schiff and Ehud Ya'ari write that Fatah "suspected the Israelis of a plot first to let Hamas gather strength and then to unleash it against the PLO, turning the uprising into a civil war... [M]any Israeli staff officers believed that the rise of fundamentalism in Gaza could be exploited to weaken the power of the PLO…"

According to Robert Fisk, Israeli support for Hamas continued after the signing of the Oslo accords. One can be pretty sure that this strategy received strong encouragement from Washington, which has also seen the advantage of financing and supporting the most vicious and narrowminded Islamic terrorists on account of their antinationalist and antisocialist credentials. Hamas also served Israel's purpose admirably by suggesting to the American public that the conflict in the Middle East pitted democratic Israel against all-or-nothing fanatics who wanted to drive the Jews into the sea. Israel's refusal to surrender conquered land and its continued building of settlements in violation of innumerable UN resolutions could then all be justified as perfectly reasonable responses to an implacable enemy.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SZA204A.html

Not "rocket" science.