Discussion in 'music, bands, clubs & festies' started by BigMoaner, Dec 24, 2015.
You called him a talentless fuck. That was poorer.
it was a joke!
oh. Ok. Pressure's off then. As you were, sorry.
There isn't. My point was rather that literature needn't be two-dimensional, page-only.
Never really got Dylan. Even if the lyrics are amazing poetry, the music still has to grab me, and I find most of his music pretty meh.
I will make an exception for the Travelling Wilburys, but they'd have been nothing without Jeff Lynne and George Harrison.
Yeah but that's irrelevant to the question Andysays was raising.
(Despite being a huge Dylan fan I actually agree with you that he shouldn't have received the award, the music is connected to the lyrics, his poetry is pretty average)
i don't know how it's possible to listen to more than 9 seconds of that
Lyrics and poetry are similar but different things really. What makes lyrics good is not the same as what makes poetry good - with lyrics its about how they work with the music and how the singer delivers them - especially the emotional hit of the refrain/chorus. The lyrics to - say - You Really Got Me or Stop! In the name of love make pretty banal poetry but work great as lyrics. Dylans lyrics are poetic - but that doesn't make them poetry.
Having said that I dont see a problem with him getting the award - its about literature in the broadest sense - the creative use of words - wordsmithery if you will. Dylan's songs had a huge impact on popular culture, ushering in a new, expansive, confident and confrontational vernacular within popular song that was quintessentially of the moment.
I think he's a bit of a shit as a person and fuck knows why he still plays live as he's been utterly shit live for over 30 years - coming across exactly like someone who really really cant be arsed to make any sort of effort.
And you'd think he would have learnt to play the harmonica by now as well (people call his harp playing "idiosyncratic" - which is ancient greek for "sucking and blowing the thing like a fucking three year old whose just got one for christmas")
but still - like him or not - he made an indelible mark on popular music - and his lyrics were at the core of that.
With Bob Dylan its a bit like Woody Allen. Worthy of respect but needs to have a great new film makers with young credentials follow them.
Colby Cosh: Bob Dylan, a genius who survives long after groovy with-it teachers have come and gone
For sure demanding on the attention span, but no doubt about it, a genius.
Leonard Cohen is a superior lyricist and songwriter. More consistent and disciplined, and a nicer person too.
A nicer person, and a better man!
I love Leonard Cohen but no way is he a better lyricist.
Even Dylan agrees with this.
How's this, for Cohen's recollection of what Dylan once said to him:
“Then Dylan says to me, ‘As far as I’m concerned, Leonard, you’re Number 1. I’m Number Zero.’ Meaning, as I understood it at the time—and I was not ready to dispute it—that his work was beyond measure and my work was pretty good.”
Leonard Cohen Makes It Darker
Cohen - like Burroughs - was born with a silver spoon.
Dylan - like Kerouac - wasn't.
Dylan was very creative with his recollections of his background, maybe no silver spoons in the house but perfectly respectable middle class shopkeepers, electronics and home furnishings I think.
But anyway, what is the relevance of this to their respective poetry ?
I set off on this endeavour yesterday, just finished Nashville Skyline. I'm hesitating to move on to Self Portrait because I've heard it's pretty crap, but I do have a new appreciation for him - those 9 albums between 62 and 69 are all great, an impressive achievement. BUT, there's 28 more albums to go, the majority of which aren't so great... still, I'm going to slog on...
Their style is different. I can see how good he is after listening to all his earlier albums, but quite a lot of his lyrics I suspect don't really have much meaning other than some entertaining imagery. (e.g. "leopard skin pill-box hat", and the entirety of Changing of the Guards, a song I really love listening to the lyrics of but which defies analysis because everything is quite random) Dylan certainly comes up with lyrics a lot faster than Cohen who can take years painstakingly working on his lyrics, but I think the difference in method shows. All of Cohen's lyrics have a clearer intention and can be analysed for meaning. A lot of Dylan's stuff can too, but a lot of the time finding the "true meaning" is a fruitless exercise.
I'd say Dylan is probably a more naturally gifted lyricist, but he can be lazy and complacent sometimes. Cohen works a lot harder at his writing and the results are consequently more coherent and consistent.
65/66. not much else.
Weird. He didn't reject the nobel prize he's just been really arsey about it?
Bob Dylan removes mention of Nobel prize from website
He is being very Bob Dylan about it.
I'm listening to Self-Portrait now, for the first time ever, and it's a lot better than I expected. It's definitely very different from what made him famous, but it's still Dylan.
So talented that I actually think something is "wrong" with him. Easily the most talented rock singer since..well, forever.
No doubt in my mind. Its not about poetry, either. He's genius is his diction, tone, phrasing, impersonation. Its more like acting. . A genius. And nothing to do with poetry.
The first paragraph says better what I was trying to say above.
Christ Idris it is shit, just terrible. What is worth listening to is Another Self Portrait: Bootleg Series Vol. 10, which is a bunch on unreleased stuff he recorded around that same time which is just great. I actually buy the theory that he purposely released something shit, nobody could pick the Self Portrait shit over the unreleased work.
Anyone heard the latest?
[QUOTE="redsquirrel, post: 15006208, member: 6084]Anyone heard the latest?[/QUOTE]
I've listened to the first two cd's. And it is perfectly entertaining, a couple of nice versions on there. Doubt I'll play it much more often tho
Ta, much like the last couple of studio albums then.
Copper Kettle is good,btw. A couple of other tracks aren't unbearable. But I do generally agree it's a 'dump annoying fans' thing, tho
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