What do you eat instead of wheat-based foods if you're trying to cut down?

[maomao]

Different kind of wheat though, as my limited understanding has it.

Durum wheat, same kind of wheat as pasta.

 

[ddraig]

A friend of ours is coeliac and the list of what she can't eat is as long as your arm.

She pretty much has to plan her life around it. It's virtually impossible for her to eat out, has to consider it when planning holidays, going to the pub, xmas with friends, etc etc.

yup it's a mare! was very careful when in Dublin recently but still managed to have something that did me over

 

[Maharani]

Spelt

 

[Kanda]

Chicken

 

[spanglechick]

It's a psychological thing, as much as anything else.

Firstly, we're really bad at cutting down, we're much better at cutting out. The rule is 600 kcal, I know what that means in terms of what I can eat, the rule is absolute and there we go.

Secondly and more importantly, we're really, really bad at denying ourselves. You describe the 2 days as denying, but you've forgotten the 5 days you can eat what you want. The alternative is 100% denial, all the time. People who do that have a tendancy to eventually lapse big time. Because it's really, really hard!

When I don't eat for a day, I always know that tomorrow I can eat what I want. That's huge. You can do anything for a single day. You're never that far away from being able to eat what you want. At 8pm I'm thinking, "tomorrow I'm going to eat loads!" and it makes me feel better. By the time I get to tomorrow, though, I'm no longer hungry and I actually don't eat loads. But I could if I wanted, and that knowledge makes all the difference.

In short, the whole thing works with your psychology rather than against it.

This psychological advantage has lots of other effects. Eating so little teaches you that it's OK to not eat. I used to panic if it looked like I was going to miss a meal. Now it doesn't bother me. I used to think you had to have carbs with a meal. Now I often don't.

And you can sustain it. When I'm down to target, I'll switch to 6:1 forever. It won't bother me to not eat much once a week. If I returned to 7:0 though, I'd probably gradually slide back to my old habits.

There is a physiological advantage too -- your hormones will act to try to maintain your weight so if you just cut out a bit, your body will respond by reducing its temperature, fidgeting less and so on. That's why it's so hard to lose weight. But if you cut out virtually everything, your body can't reduce its run rate that much. So you still lose weight. It seems to be more effective than spreading the same reduction in calories over the whole week.

It also seems to be healthy. It started as a health thing because regular fasting reduces your cholesterol, blood pressure and so on. It just also happens to be effective at reducing your weight.

That's just a quick highlights package. There's a lot more info out there. And you can do it without anybody making a buck off you too, because it's actually cheaper than normal.

So has your appetite definitely diminished? How long did it take? I've eaten double helpings of food forever. I see what people have for lunch at work sometimes and think how the fuck do they manage!

I think everyone interested in weightloss should have a good go at 5:2, but I feel the need to say that if you have issues with Overeating and portion control, you do have to treat your "normal days" with some caution.

Basically, you'll only lose weight on 5:2 if your weight was more or less stable before you began.

OU - there's quite a lot of good evidence that intermittent fasting is very healthy in all kinds of ways, not just for weightloss. There's a BBC programme presented by Dr Michael Mosely which I bet is on YouTube, which kind of launched the whole thing and explains a lot of the science stuff. On a train right now, but maybe someone could link to the right one?

 

[Orang Utan]

not sure what you mean by stable weight. i put it on and lose it very easily, but it has either fluctuated massively in the past few weeks or i have a faulty scales. I lost about ten pounds after stopping drinking, but now I'm four pounds heavier than before i stopped and this is only in six short weeks.

 

[gentlegreen]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/horizon-20122013-3-eat-fast-and-live-longer

Amusing that I'm blocked because my VPN is set to "France" for French TV

 

[Greebo]

I just got a salad from the market for lunch. It was made of lettuce, tomato, roast pepper, roast courgette, cous cous, lentils, brocolli, green beans, kidney beans, grated carrot, dolmades and houmous. No wheat. £3.50. Very filling <snip>

Point of order - cous cous is made of wheat.

 

[spanglechick]

• not sure what you mean by stable weight. i put it on and lose it very easily, but it has either fluctuated massively in the past few weeks or i have a faulty scales. I lost about ten pounds after stopping drinking, but now I'm four pounds heavier than before i stopped and this is only in six short weeks.

  Hmm. Basically, the fasting gives you a weekly calorie deficit of somewhere in the ballpark of 3-4000, which should roughly equate to a 1lb weightloss.
  
  But if your eating on the other days is more than your body needs, you will find that the weightloss is less, or is cancelled out, or even that you continue to gain weight (albeit more slowly).
  
  
  

 

[gentlegreen]

Quinoa / celery / walnut salad always feels very un-glycaemic ... I'll instinctively grab that even though I'm not madly keen on walnuts and normally don't like celery at all.

.. there's always buckwheat.

One of my naughty treats is roasted buckwheat muesli - sadly it's not that easy to eat in moderation.

Perhaps in preparation for moving to Brittany I ought to try making buckwheat crêpes ...

 

[Rebelda]

Rye or Spelt bread.

 

[danny la rouge]

A friend who was always dieting tried this and her doctor told her to start again as her BP or cholesterol had gone up and wheat moderates it. /don'treallyremember]

Get a spiralator and make vegetable spaghetti.

Mrs la rouge got one of these. Here's my view: they're fantastic at making spiral vegetables like courgettes and carrots, but what they don't do is make pasta. A spiral courgette is not pasta or anything like pasta. It's a spiral courgette.

 

[killer b]

Mrs B has a mainly no-wheat diet, so I've been diversifying a lot lately - surprising how much wheat there is in everything...

I cook polenta a bit (I generally do it as chips or grilled), and my brother introduced me to gram flour pancakes (socca), which are really quick to make, and are a fine accompaniment to anything that you'd usually have with a flatbread.

Otherwise: rice & potatoes, mainly.

 

[danny la rouge]

not sure what you mean by stable weight. i put it on and lose it very easily, but it has either fluctuated massively in the past few weeks or i have a faulty scales. I lost about ten pounds after stopping drinking, but now I'm four pounds heavier than before i stopped and this is only in six short weeks.

I tried 5:2. Having read up on it it seemed to make reasonable scientific sense, particularly relating to IGF-1. So I gave it a go. The "fast" days were Ok for me - you're not completely fasting after all.

However, the non fast days were terrible. I was ravenous and ate far more than I would normally. In the nearly four months I did it I put on more weight than I ever had done on my life. I had to stop.

I know some people love it. But it turns out just eating sensibly is the best way for me.

 

[kabbes]

I tried 5:2. Having read up on it it seemed to make reasonable scientific sense, particularly relating to IGF-1. So I gave it a go. The "fast" days were Ok for me - you're not completely fasting after all.

However, the non fast days were terrible. I was ravenous and ate far more than I would normally. In the nearly four months I did it I put on more weight than I ever had done on my life. I had to stop.

I know some people love it. But it turns out just eating sensibly is the best way for me.

Interesting. I have known other people say the same thing. It seems strange to me, because that's definitely not been my experience. But there you go.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

It's a psychological thing, as much as anything else.

Firstly, we're really bad at cutting down, we're much better at cutting out. The rule is 600 kcal, I know what that means in terms of what I can eat, the rule is absolute and there we go.

Secondly and more importantly, we're really, really bad at denying ourselves. You describe the 2 days as denying, but you've forgotten the 5 days you can eat what you want. The alternative is 100% denial, all the time. People who do that have a tendancy to eventually lapse big time. Because it's really, really hard!

When I don't eat for a day, I always know that tomorrow I can eat what I want. That's huge. You can do anything for a single day. You're never that far away from being able to eat what you want. At 8pm I'm thinking, "tomorrow I'm going to eat loads!" and it makes me feel better. By the time I get to tomorrow, though, I'm no longer hungry and I actually don't eat loads. But I could if I wanted, and that knowledge makes all the difference.

In short, the whole thing works with your psychology rather than against it.

With the massive proviso that you probably have to have a healthy relationship with food for it to work like this. Because the restrict/gorge cycle is also one of the physical factors that drives bulimia and purge subtype anorexia. It's interesting (and obviously positive for you) that you say that you don't feel the need to overeat when you're given free reign again, and I suspect that is what it would be like for many people who haven't had issues before. However, diet busting, or the tendency to overeat or binge when previously denied, is also a true psychological phenomena.

E2A: I would really be quite worried about someone with a history of anorexia or bulimia nervosa from trying this tbh. I am fully recovered and frankly I don't think I'd want to risk it, though for me I'd be more concerned about the buzz of the fast days.

E2A2: I'm obviously not suggesting this relates to OP, just making a general point!

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Anyway Orang Utan, my mum is allergic to wheat so I've picked up a few tips from her, but it sounds like you're wanting to reduce carbs more generally so I'm not sure how helpful it would be.

However, if it really is wheat you're wanting to avoid, unlike when she found out about her allergy, there are some excellent wheat free products out there now.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I'm doing carb cutting at the moment. So during the week some combo of eggs/beans/tomatoes/mushrooms and/or some combo of yoghurt/fruit/nuts for breakfast. Lunch is whatever soup is on in the canteen plus big tub of homemade salad with a wee bit of meat, cheese or nuts. More nuts/fruit will be consumed during the day. Dinner is just normal stuff, though keeping spuds, pasta, etc to minimum portion. I'm trying to do this while keeping meat/fish to 5 portions a week. Actually, I feel okay, not had that sleepy slump in the afternoon at work so far this week.

 

[gentlegreen]

I think I need to rethink breakfast - I'm finding the porridge and banana way too quick release - I may have to get my head and stomach around eating maybe half the quantity at 6 am ready for cycling at about 7.20 ... it is after all very easy to prepare - perhaps the second half at 10am ... then lunch at 1.

I reckon I do need carbs in the morning - cycling after 10 hours of fasting surely can't be a good idea - I only get away with it because it's only 4 miles - I feel sure the Lycra crowd I encounter in the morning are fuelled-up ...

 

[Orang Utan]

I think I need to rethink breakfast - I'm finding the porridge and banana way too quick release - I may have to get my head and stomach around eating maybe half the quantity at 6 am ready for cycling at about 7.20 ... it is after all very easy to prepare - perhaps the second half at 10am ... then lunch at 1.

I reckon I do need carbs in the morning - cycling after 10 hours of fasting surely can't be a good idea - I only get away with it because it's only 4 miles - I feel sure the Lycra crowd I encounter in the morning are fuelled-up ...

when i did my 8.5 mile commute, I just woke up, brushed my teeth and got on my bike. never felt any lack of energy. the opposite in fact. a brisk ride was way better than a cup of coffee for getting the mind and body going. Can't eat first thing in the morning. I don't usually eat at all until after 1pm

 

[xenon]

Meat, nuts, beans. It's all about protine, fat and salt / spice. If i could just stop drinking, i'd be lean as fuck.

 

[gentlegreen]

I always have much more energy on the way home ...
Not very scientific though as I always reckon on 10 miles before I'm properly warmed up - but that's what I need to then ride 10 miles home at a good speed...

Yes I agree on the benefits of cycling to work per se .. a lot of my colleagues crawl in from the car park and need a huge shot of caffeine to get going .. I even deliberately start work earlier than I'm contracted to do... though that has multiple benefits ...

 

[quimcunx]

Mrs la rouge got one of these. Here's my view: they're fantastic at making spiral vegetables like courgettes and carrots, but what they don't do is make pasta. A spiral courgette is not pasta or anything like pasta. It's a spiral courgette.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[kabbes]

With the massive proviso that you probably have to have a healthy relationship with food for it to work like this. Because the restrict/gorge cycle is also one of the physical factors that drives bulimia and purge subtype anorexia. It's interesting (and obviously positive for you) that you say that you don't feel the need to overeat when you're given free reign again, and I suspect that is what it would be like for many people who haven't had issues before. However, diet busting, or the tendency to overeat or binge when previously denied, is also a true psychological phenomena.

E2A: I would really be quite worried about someone with a history of anorexia or bulimia nervosa from trying this tbh. I am fully recovered and frankly I don't think I'd want to risk it, though for me I'd be more concerned about the buzz of the fast days.

E2A2: I'm obviously not suggesting this relates to OP, just making a general point!

I think this is fair comment. And I have been concerned just a smidgen both for myself and my wife (and she has for us) that sometimes the eagerness for a fast day can have the hint of something a little more dangerous. I guess we're aware of the risk and both keep an eye on each other.

I never weighed myself ever before I started this. Now I do it every day and plot a graph. Partly that's just me and the way I approach things. But partly I can see that as a concern as regards unhealthy obsession.

Right now, it's fine. But I want to keep it that way. That's why I have a distinct goal in mind and a pre-determined decision to change to 6:1 when I hit that goal.

 

[gentlegreen]

There must be some ideal on the line between crazily easy access to cheap carbs when you live 100 yards from a supermarket and hunting and gathering where you worry where your next meal is coming from ...
I'm certainly aiming to move a little nearer the latter for the latter part of my life - and see if I can't gravitate naturally towards the Okinawa diet ...

 

[trashpony]

The people I know who've lost a lot of weight doing 5:2 have become very obsessive and uber-fit. They do challenges to see how long they can go without any food at all (I usually drink tea, even if I don't eat any food). So I can see how it can tap into unhealthy eating patterns.

I veer between binging and not eating much on non-fast days. I do no have a healthy relationship with food

 

[friendofdorothy]

all this talk of food is making me hungry ...

Anyway Orang Utan have you tried Spelt bread? It is a type of wheat but its an ancient type that the Romans used to have, so its different to diggest. Anyway its tasty.

Nothing to do with losing weight though.

 

[trashpony]

all this talk of food is making me hungry ...

Anyway Orang Utan have you tried Spelt bread? It is a type of wheat but its an ancient type that the Romans used to have, so its different to diggest. Anyway its tasty.

Nothing to do with losing weight though.

But it's a very good point that a lot of people have difficulty digesting modern bread and yeast, rather than have an issue with gluten per se

 

[Orang Utan]

Is it expensive? I'm not spending £3 on bread

 

[xenon]

You dont need bread. Not if you work in a sendatry job and have a semi reasonable income