What do people know about the IWW

[greenman]

I'm a Wobbly dual carder and the growth of the union in Britain is great. This is being achieved by focus on real, ongoing issues and struggles at the grassroots, non-sectarianism (Wobs in UK include socialists, greens, anarchists, syndicalists etc, but a lot of people that would not put a label on themselves at all, other than worker!) and the good democratic structures traditional to the union.
The current economic and social situation are now ripe for growth of this type of organisation IMO. It is a breath of fresh air to be involved in something positive where people focus on what we can do now in a direct way rather than arguments over the finer points of some future utopia, or conforming to state imposed bureaucracy.

 

[JimW]

I was a member briefly in the 90s (when it was just re-establishing itself in the UK?) but have lapsed since moving abroad. The democratic structures greenman mentions always struck me as its strength and it would be the ideal union for here (China) but overt organising outside the official union still isn't possible.

 

[The Black Hand]

I was a member (briefly!) of the IWW in the 90s...

After the Direct Action Movement (in East London anyway) fell apart... I thought the Wobblies were a good bet... but they weren't...

... I think I was attracted the romance of it all A good union organiser... kinda like a hobo traveling around the country in the back of a freight cart...

All it amounted to was the occasional meeting in central London.

At the same time, SC, now a IWCA councillor, was a member... and we went up on some mad trip to unionise the workers who were building the Skye bridge

The IWW, unlike the US and Austrialia, doesn't have an historical tradition in Britain and I don't see any point pretending otherwise...

Fekking kids. The IWW is huge now in the UK relative to its past history when you were around, by far the biggest broad based commie & anarcho thing going... It is the popular front of trade unionism

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I was a member (briefly!) of the IWW in the 90s...

After the Direct Action Movement (in East London anyway) fell apart... I thought the Wobblies were a good bet... but they weren't...

... I think I was attracted the romance of it all A good union organiser... kinda like a hobo traveling around the country in the back of a freight cart...

All it amounted to was the occasional meeting in central London.

At the same time, SC, now a IWCA councillor, was a member... and we went up on some mad trip to unionise the workers who were building the Skye bridge

The IWW, unlike the US and Austrialia, doesn't have an historical tradition in Britain and I don't see any point pretending otherwise...

woooooooooah tiger!

I'll get back to you on that tommorrow when a) i'm not drunk and b) i've looked over the agnda fro the London AGM

PS you were in the DAM? I had no idea, i thougt you were pretty much unaligned

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Does anyone have any contact details for the IWW in Manchester. I emailed them the other night but they haven't replied.

yep, PM me

Is solidarity an anarchist or syndicalist trade union.

the union that may not be a union any more after financial and tax wrangles called 'solidarity' is a BNP front, and the Solidarity Federation is not a union but an anarchist group. You'll have to narrow that one down mate.

I just want to get involved in something. I think the ideology behind the IWW is sound but if they are impossible to contact thats no use. Would solidarity be an acceptable union for an anarchist?

i'm generally quite into telling ppl what to think but here i have to day - i dunno, what do you think?

 

[biff curtains]

Just to clear up a glaring error - the solidarity mostly being refferred to on this thread is actually a lefty pro TU magazine that is actually not that bad, and they've been using the name a lot longer than those fash twats.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

there are a couple of oddballs (I'm thinking of the one from wales in particular!)

Yeah, he is somewhat eccentric. On the plus side he gave he a free CD Rom.

 

[durruti02]

i have yet to be convinced of the iww in the now. i don't see the millions allready in unions jumping across and i don't see those not in unions or in new industries deciding on a union with so few memebers and so little money .. i would love of i could take across people where i work .. but it would have to be hundreds doing it not in ones and twos .. ( didn't realise rosie kane is iww .. will speak to local sp'ers as we have some 'issues' (!)with unison currently!)

the issue is recognition and numbers .. without either people are going to ignore you ..i peopelk are NOT happy with their unions but neither do i see them chomping at the bit to join one wth no power at all and no benefits

the parallels with harringtons solidarity are too close for now .. a union of politicos ..

please convince me otherwise .. i am a firm believer in industrial unionism but i can't see the path at present ..

p.s. it all sounds a bit ultra left! LOL

 

[Das Uberdog]

I really like the IWWs programme - definitely the best organisational set-up for a union I think anyone could come up with. They're hampered (in the UK) by a completely unprofessional culture (to many frickin' Anarchos) and a preponderance of some downright weirdos with disproportionate influence (due to the organisation's small membership).

They've also stuck with what I think is a pretty out-dated rule about subs collection - they collect it from the members individually - no direct debit. If this actually worked in practice that would be one thing - but in the new postmodern world, where not all the workers from one factor share the same pub and the same row of terraces, in practice subs just don't get collected.

Apart from that, there's lots to build with.

 

[biff curtains]

I believe there is a proposal to set up a DD dues system at the next general assembly...

The IWW certainly has potential, at the moment to pick up the slack where trad unions don't do the job, either by being wedded to partnership or through a lack of interest in organising certain sectors. Whether it can actually live up to that promise remains to be seen.

 

[belboid]

eh? I already pay my subs by standing order

 

[butchersapron]

I think there's some confusion here with the oppostion to the check off system in the US that the IWW opposes.

 

[durruti02]

I believe there is a proposal to set up a DD dues system at the next general assembly...

The IWW certainly has potential, at the moment to pick up the slack where trad unions don't do the job, either by being wedded to partnership or through a lack of interest in organising certain sectors. Whether it can actually live up to that promise remains to be seen.

stick with the the direct face to face subs collection i say .. it is imho essential to a democratic union .. dd + check off all break the link between union and member

 

[Das Uberdog]

Impossible to actually enforce - much better to focus on face-to-face contact in other areas: regular branch meetings, events, etcetera...

 

[The Black Hand]

i have yet to be convinced of the iww in the now. i don't see the millions allready in unions jumping across and i don't see those not in unions or in new industries deciding on a union with so few memebers and so little money .. i would love of i could take across people where i work .. but it would have to be hundreds doing it not in ones and twos .. ( didn't realise rosie kane is iww .. will speak to local sp'ers as we have some 'issues' (!)with unison currently!)

the issue is recognition and numbers .. without either people are going to ignore you ..i peopelk are NOT happy with their unions but neither do i see them chomping at the bit to join one wth no power at all and no benefits

the parallels with harringtons solidarity are too close for now .. a union of politicos ..

please convince me otherwise .. i am a firm believer in industrial unionism but i can't see the path at present ..

p.s. it all sounds a bit ultra left! LOL

Not to dual carders.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I really like the IWWs programme - definitely the best organisational set-up for a union I think anyone could come up with.

aww shucks

They're hampered (in the UK) by a completely unprofessional culture (to many frickin' Anarchos) and a preponderance of some downright weirdos with disproportionate influence (due to the organisation's small membership).

Well it depends; the anarchos are the most professional in many cases, and anarcho's certainly don't have a monopoly the slacker end of things either!

They've also stuck with what I think is a pretty out-dated rule about subs collection - they collect it from the members individually - no direct debit. If this actually worked in practice that would be one thing - but in the new postmodern world, where not all the workers from one factory share the same pub and the same row of terraces, in practice subs just don't get collected.

Not true. This is an interesting idea actually, lots of people think this is a rule for some reason. You CAN pay by direct debit, loads of people do. The reason that more people do not is partially so that their branch only sends half its dues to the national organisation. The branch is entiteled to half, but it can be laborious claiming things back all the time if everyone pays direct, especially for the admin folks. The solution is to set up local branch bank accounts, and this has been done and is being done across the country.

I do agree that it should be ONLY be by direct debit, but this is quite a big break with the US IWW and with tradition, so it will be a long discussion. But trust me, it is happening and there is currently a proposal come up with some new ideas around dues and collection.

I also think dues should be raised

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I believe there is a proposal to set up a DD dues system at the next general assembly...

i believe it already exists comrade

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I'm probably about to join, once I become one of the horny-handed sons of toil at Friends of the Earth later in the month...

Matt

the IWW is not like that tho mate - join as soon as you can give it a tiny bit of time, not only when you have a job. I joined as a student and got the union into studenty jobs - like barwork and shops and that - but never actually used it myself at my summer jobs. The use of the IWW and the IWW project in general does not rely on you being in a particular industry, or even being in work.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

They're not cells. This isn't baader-meinhoff. They're dual card holders. That's it. And frankly, who gives a fuck what the unuion officials think. Let them make a meal of it if they will. Let's bring their record to light.

having just read some of the shit mainstream union officials come out with to their members, i cannot say how right butchers is on this one.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

They've done some very good work in the US with Starbucks workers:

http://www.starbucksunion.org/

"US: Workers score big victory against Starbucks at Labour Board"

http://libcom.org/news/article.php/starbucks-iww-victory-090306

in the UK too; we had a job branch and we won the dismissal dispute over our main organiser.

One problem: none of em work in starbucks any more

Bound to happen really, look at MWR in the 90's.

The difference i think in the US was that they were often salting, which we weren't doing. Yet

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I think they had some success in organising Motorcycle Couriers in the 1980's(Although this could be more to do with DAM.)
Were involved in Simon Jones Campaign (though not exclusively) in taking action against Plann Personell, including demonstrations outside their offices.

Problem with the Wobblies, is that some members are in disagreement with you joining and being actively involved in 'Official' and/or T.U.C. affiliated Unions.

WHO HAS BEEN TELLING PEOPLE THIS IT'S NONSENSE!

A group that is just as good, if not better is Solidarity, with people like Dave Chapell (CWU), who has similar Syndicalist views, without the Ultra Leftism & Pie In The Sky Utopian Extreme Anarchist ideas that some in the IWW may have.

Hmm!

anyway, bad call there mate, cos OP actually said he *was* an anarchist, so telling him that is a bit of an own goal.

 

[Kenny Vermouth]

I am a 27 year old underemployed graduate living in Salford, Greater Manchester. I have long been an armchair anarchist. I am a great fan of Noam Chomsky and Ursula K Le Guin. Partly out of disatisfaction with my lot I have decided to try and apply my anarchist principles in reality. I have emailed the IWW to find out about joining. Does anyone know anything about the IWW in Manchester of the IWW in general. Has anyone been a member of the IWW and what was it like.

I'd think about finding a job first.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I was a member (briefly!) of the IWW in the 90s...

and:

All it amounted to was the occasional meeting in central London.

well lets start from the top then. As i understand it, the IWW was briefly incarnated in the 60's or 70's in the UK then faded, then reincarnated in the early 90's. However, it is not until about 2000 at the very earliest that it picks up the momentum it has now and i think it is almost pointless to compare it with the org before then. I think until then the IWW could give kinda support, but not actual concrete help. It is now an actual union, it is being used to defend workers and workplaces, successfully. I'm not sure it has gone all the way to full union registration (i'm not at all familiar with the technicalities of this either) but as for workplace recognition - yes. The bosses recognise the IWW is going to stop them from doing x or y in multiple workplaces.Thats the recognition you need really.

After the Direct Action Movement (in East London anyway) fell apart... I thought the Wobblies were a good bet... but they weren't...

I have lots of respect for the DAM, and i reckon they were probably better than the early uk IWW in the 90's, but now its incomparable. The DAM was the best anarchist group going in its time, but it never came near being a union or having the same workplace sway that the IWW has now. No offence to DAM members, i think its a different project anyway: the IWW is a radical syndicalist union, it is not an anarcho-syndicalist group or purely a network of militants.

At the same time, SC, now a IWCA councillor, was a member... and we went up on some mad trip to unionise the workers who were building the Skye bridge

fair play!

A good union organiser... kinda like a doley traveling around the country in the Megabus

fixed

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I'd think about finding a job first.

did he say he didn't have one?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

stick with the the direct face to face subs collection i say .. it is imho essential to a democratic union .. dd + check off all break the link between union and member

pish and tosh my good man! Democracy comes from demoratic structure and horizontalism, not from havng to buy tiny stamps every month with cash!

 

[durruti02]

pish and tosh my good man! Democracy comes from demoratic structure and horizontalism, not from havng to buy tiny stamps every month with cash!

young man! i speak from many years of experiance doing or trying to do just that i understand what you say BUT when you got a full time job on top of union it is VERY easy to let things slip .. particularly when management will not encourage regular meetings .. when in dispute it is ok getting people at meetings .. outside fo that it is very hard .. direct collection gives you, actually it FORCES the steward, to meet their individual members face to face .. the idea that it is ismply about stamps is daft .. it is about talking too and listenning to the ocncerns of EACH and every bloody memeber ... this is SOOOOOOOOO important in re growing all the links that have been lost in the w/c .. this 121 is ignored by the leninists .. it would be a shame of the IWW abandons this too

p.s. it is the same with local work .. er iwca / hi

 

[biff curtains]

young man! i speak from many years of experiance doing or trying to do just that i understand what you say BUT when you got a full time job on top of union it is VERY easy to let things slip .. particularly when management will not encourage regular meetings .. when in dispute it is ok getting people at meetings .. outside fo that it is very hard .. direct collection gives you, actually it FORCES the steward, to meet their individual members face to face .. the idea that it is ismply about stamps is daft .. it is about talking too and listenning to the ocncerns of EACH and every bloody memeber ... this is SOOOOOOOOO important in re growing all the links that have been lost in the w/c .. this 121 is ignored by the leninists .. it would be a shame of the IWW abandons this too

p.s. it is the same with local work .. er iwca / hi

In theory you are right - however in practice it is a recipe for chaos and not knowing who is in good standing/arrears.

I agree that getting people to meetings outside of work or disputes is very difficult, however there are other ways round that - informal get togethers, regular socials, and where you only have a general membership branch rather than job branches then having an officer who's role is talking to every member who doesn't come to meetings/events regularly as often as possible - IE once a month, not a trot style hassle job, just asking people how things are going, if they've got any ideas etc

And in the long term a union will only be built through job branches - that's the real goal, they must move away from the general membership branch model.

 

[durruti02]

In theory you are right - however in practice it is a recipe for chaos and not knowing who is in good standing/arrears.

I agree that getting people to meetings outside of work or disputes is very difficult, however there are other ways round that - informal get togethers, regular socials, and where you only have a general membership branch rather than job branches then having an officer who's role is talking to every member who doesn't come to meetings/events regularly as often as possible - IE once a month, not a trot style hassle job, just asking people how things are going, if they've got any ideas etc

And in the long term a union will only be built through job branches - that's the real goal, they must move away from the general membership branch model.

exactly the opposite imho ..

imho what i suggest allows you to know who is in good standing .. at the moment DD and check off absolves knowledge and responsibility .. having a direct line of subs up the chain creates absolute responsibility .. mate i have thought about this almost every work day for 20 years most of them as a shop steward .. this and the closed shop are the two most important things we need to push for .. horizintal democracy etc etc come OUT of these not the other way around ... you can be as horizontal as you like it does not mean you will get members .. look trade unions are fundamentally ABOUT money (and conditions) it is that financial relationship that we need to rebuild with the union and its members

 

[Nigel]

WHO HAS BEEN TELLING PEOPLE THIS IT'S NONSENSE!



Hmm!

anyway, bad call there mate, cos OP actually said he *was* an anarchist, so telling him that is a bit of an own goal.

Perhaps I should have emphasised the 'some'. As far as I am aware, you have IWW members in groups as diverse as the Socialist Party to people who express primitive Eco-Anarchism. I've heard some members talking about working outside, and even competing with Trade Union structures, which at the present time would be disasterous in my opinion.

I am not hostile towards the Wobblies, however I can see situations where their tactics may be counterproductive at the moment. Perhaps you should make Trade Union membership compulsory.

With regards to Solidarity, it is made up of various individuals and groups: SSP,ISG, Labour Party members and people close to Syndiclist and Anarchist ideas. I metioned Dave Chapell who is CWU in the West Country, whom I get the impression is a Syndiclist with libertarian leanings(was talking to him about Sabotage: Geoff Brown), of which he sees as tactics of note for workers and trade unionists.

I was'nt suggesting that the Shevek join, or not join either. I should imagine membership for the wobblies is minimal, and solidarity is by donation, if he is based in London meetings for both organisations is pretty central. What I would say is that Solidarity, in my opinion is and will be more influential in the future than Wobblies, however, sheveks' first concern should be getting a job (unless he is going to organise claimants) and get involved in a local trade union branch & possibly trades council.

 

[biff curtains]

exactly the opposite imho ..

imho what i suggest allows you to know who is in good standing .. at the moment DD and check off absolves knowledge and responsibility .. having a direct line of subs up the chain creates absolute responsibility .. mate i have thought about this almost every work day for 20 years most of them as a shop steward .. this and the closed shop are the two most important things we need to push for .. horizintal democracy etc etc come OUT of these not the other way around ... you can be as horizontal as you like it does not mean you will get members .. look trade unions are fundamentally ABOUT money (and conditions) it is that financial relationship that we need to rebuild with the union and its members

OK, pulling rank eh?

Like I said in theory you're right, but what happens when reps are shite at collecting dues, especially from people they don't even work with.

My suggestion (a regular ring round/visit) has the best of both worlds regular contact and efficiency...

I defo agree on the closed shop though.