What do anarchists want to achieve?

[bluestreak]

I want a nice lie down and a cup of tea.

 

[Thora]

Cos you're old

 

[Belushi]

Innit. It starts with a lie down and a nice cup of tea and next thing you know he'll be demanding the return of National Service and reminiscing about 'old money'

 

[butchersapron]

I've always suspected that max's crude childish scepticism went hand in hand with right-wing toss politics.

 

[max_freakout]

'Anarchy' doesn't mean, contra max, that no one is in control,

yes it does


what a suprise, an "anarchist" who insists on control

 

[Fruitloop]

You can't complain that anarchists fail to live up to your expectations of them when your expectations are just plain wrong!

 

[max_freakout]

ANARCHISM ONLY MEANS ABSENCE OF STATE. IT DOES NOT MEAN RUNNING AROUND SMASHING STUFF

'anarchism' doesnt mean either of these things

'anarchy', otoh, is a state with no coercive control, but "anarchists" dont want this, i dont think they know what they want

 

[max_freakout]

You can't complain that anarchists fail to live up to your expectations of them when your expectations are just plain wrong!

i dont have any expectations of "anarchists" (God help anyone who expects anything of "anarchists")

but i find it highly amusing that they dont even seem to know what "a state of anarchy" actually entails, and that they dont even want to bring about such a state

 

[danny la rouge]

i dont think they know what they want

I've just told you what I want. I want a socety with no ruler, based on solidarity, mutual aid, and cooperation.

 

[Fruitloop]

i dont have any expectations of "anarchists" (God help anyone who expects anything of "anarchists")

but i find it highly amusing that they dont even seem to know what "a state of anarchy" actually entails, and that they dont even want to bring about such a state

That's because anarchy has two separate meanings in modern usage, and so many anarchists avoid it because the political meaning would become confused with the vernacular one ('this kitchen is in a state of anarchy!').

 

[butchersapron]

Max, all you are saying is that anarchists dont think that their vision of anarchy (if they choose to call it that) equals your third one down in the dictionary definion of no control. I think they're right to think that.

I do like your attempt to abandon the dictionary in this case though. Makes you look all consistent and that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Since they don't want anarchy, what do they want?

Anarchism.

Is 'anarchist' just another word for 'communist'?

For some anarchists, yes. For others, no.

 

[rioted]

a state with no coercive control,

A state without coercive control isn't a state. Simple as.

 

[bluestreak]

Innit. It starts with a lie down and a nice cup of tea and next thing you know he'll be demanding the return of National Service and reminiscing about 'old money'

in my day lsd was currency, not drugs etc etc

As far as I'm concerned, it's not my revolution if I can't put my feet up with a cup of char to it.

 

[rioted]

even when there's dancin' to be done?

 

[bluestreak]

I've always suspected that max's crude childish scepticism went hand in hand with right-wing toss politics.

A cross between Raynd and something from the Illuminati books, one would guess. with a little Castellanada (sp?) thrown in to impress first year undergrad hippy girls from the home counties.

 

[butchersapron]

'Anarchy' doesn't mean, contra max, that no one is in control,

yes it does

what a suprise, an "anarchist" who insists on control

It would be helpful if some argument or something appeared here to contradict my claim that anarchy is, in fact, a model of control.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A max_freakout thread so wrongheaded and simplistic that even having him on ignore doesn't help.

Aren't they all?

Max, just go and and read the wikipedia entry on anarchism. then read a few of the other articles about various strands thereof. then come back and ask a few questions, then perhaps try some of the libcom library for some deeper stuff.

Do you believe he's actually capable of transcending his preconceptions?
Especially after some of his posts on the last thread involving the matter.

You're just making yourself look like a cock.

Which is a good enough reason, IMHO, to let this thread go on and on and on.

 

[ViolentPanda]

yes it does


what a suprise, an "anarchist" who insists on control

He hasn't insisted at all, he hasn't even voiced an opinion about control, he's merely stated an obvious fact.

 

[ViolentPanda]

'anarchism' doesnt mean either of these things

'anarchy', otoh, is a state with no coercive control, but "anarchists" dont want this, i dont think they know what they want

It's plainly obvious that you very rarely think at all.

 

[max_freakout]

I've just told you what I want. I want a socety with no ruler, based on solidarity, mutual aid, and cooperation.

but what if other people dont want that? How do you propose to get them to fall in lin with your vision of anarchy?

 

[butchersapron]

but what if other people dont want that? How do you propose to get them to fall in lin with your vision of anarchy?

Irelavent to your OP. Frankly.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've just told you what I want. I want a socety with no ruler, based on solidarity, mutual aid, and cooperation.

Max labours (still, even after he's been informed otherwise) under the delusion that "anarchism" is a homogeneous movement where all "anarchists" strive toward the same goal.

 

[rioted]

Max labours (still, even after he's been informed otherwise) under the delusion that "anarchism" is a homogeneous movement where all "anarchists" strive toward the same goal.

TBF, there are sections of the movement that take exactly that line!

 

[danny la rouge]

but what if other people dont want that? How do you propose to get them to fall in lin with your vision of anarchy?

Other people don't want that. But this has nothing to do with what you started off saying.

 

[max_freakout]

Max, all you are saying is that anarchists dont think that their vision of anarchy (if they choose to call it that) equals your third one down in the dictionary definion of no control.

any vision of anarchy which includes coercive control to keep people in line, is meaningless


the "anarchist police"

 

[butchersapron]

any vision of anarchy which includes coercive control to keep people in line, is meaningless


the "anarchist police"

Max, decide what you're going to argue about. Have you abandoned the anarchist don't want anarchy approach that was the motiovating argument for this thread - it does look like it.

I'll repeat, as regards the OP Max, all you are saying is that anarchists dont think that their vision of anarchy (if they choose to call it that) equals your third one down in the dictionary definion of no control.

 

[max_freakout]

Max labours (still, even after he's been informed otherwise) under the delusion that "anarchism" is a homogeneous movement where all "anarchists" strive toward the same goal.

no it isnt that all anarchists want the same thing

it's that no anarchists actually want anarchy

 

[butchersapron]

Nope, we've just done that. Next one.

 

[danny la rouge]

the "anarchist police"

Who is advocating anarchist police?