What can we learn from experiences across Europe of building broad left parties?

[Fisher_Gate]

Detailed analysis of situation in Netherlands and positions of Dutch Socialist Party here:
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1355
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1172
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article43

 

[Jean-Luc]

Detailed analysis of situation in Netherlands and positions of Dutch Socialist Party here:
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1355
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1172
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article43

Aagh. so, yet another Trotskyist group has "entered" the Dutch SP. It must be like the National Union of Students in there. I wonder when they migrated from the Dutch Labour Party.

 

[gorski]

Heaven and Hell

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Aagh. so, yet another Trotskyist group has "entered" the Dutch SP. It must be like the National Union of Students in there. I wonder when they migrated from the Dutch Labour Party.

The SAP - the Dutch trotskyist group aligned with the Fourth International - do not consider they have "entered" the SP in the sense in which it was used in the 1930s by Trotsky.

They have joined it, because it is in line with the perspectives of the Fourth International to build broad left parties. They joined it many years ago, as the article from 2004 I quoted makes clear.

 

[glenquagmire]

Which Fourth International?

 

[Dhimmi]

Some people want to move towards that ...

http://www.socialistresistance.net/broadleft.html

Interesting, thanks for the link.

 

[Jean-Luc]

The SAP - the Dutch trotskyist group aligned with the Fourth International - do not consider they have "entered" the SP in the sense in which it was used in the 1930s by Trotsky.
They have joined it, because it is in line with the perspectives of the Fourth International to build broad left parties. They joined it many years ago, as the article from 2004 I quoted makes clear.

I don't understand the difference but I'll take your word for it that there is, at least in Trotskyist theory. But, in Britain or maybe I should say England, which party have you "joined" or would you join?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

I don't understand the difference but I'll take your word for it that there is, at least in Trotskyist theory. But, in Britain or maybe I should say England, which party have you "joined" or would you join?

I have been a member of Respect since its formation in 2004. Before that I was a member of the Labour Party for 25 years.

 

[JHE]

Which Fourth International?

The one that Mandel led. The one that publishes International Viewpoint: http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/

A funny old 4th International it is too! Its members believe in regroupment to form new left-wing parties, but the component groups of the International are in very different situations, having made very different choices.

The Portuguese ones are in a broad left-wing alliance, as policy would suggest.

The English and Welsh ones joined the Islamo-Trot-GG lash-up, al-Respeq, and stayed with GG and Mozzies when most of the Trots went their own ineffectual way.

The French ones have not gone in for any daft Islamo-Trottery and have the decency to stick up for french secularism. They stand for election proudly calling themselves Revolutionary Communists and sometimes they've even done surprisingly well - much better than their daftly Islamophile English and Welsh counterparts who prefer not to call themselves communists.

The Italians talk of regroupment, while separating themselves off into the Critical Left.

 

[Jean-Luc]

I have been a member of Respect since its formation in 2004. Before that I was a member of the Labour Party for 25 years.

Fair enough. Thanks. But Respect is not, and never can be, a "broad left" party since in practice it appeals only to one relatively small minority section of the population most of who are not particularly "left" at all. But this whole business of building a "broad left party" is becoming a bit of a joke with each Trotskyist sect trying to build its own. You're in favour of building Respect. The SWP has formed the Left Party. Some other group wants to form a "New Workers Party". And now I see that there a two Fifth Internationals alongside the four or five Fourth Internationals. I can never see the Children of the Prophet (Trotsky not Mohammed, that is) ever getting along together in a single party. In fact, the only way I can see a "broad Left party" getting off the ground is without any of them.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Fair enough. Thanks. But Respect is not, and never can be, a "broad left" party since in practice it appeals only to one relatively small minority section of the population most of who are not particularly "left" at all. But this whole business of building a "broad left party" is becoming a bit of a joke with each Trotskyist sect trying to build its own. You're in favour of building Respect. The SWP has formed the Left Party. Some other group wants to form a "New Workers Party". And now I see that there a two Fifth Internationals alongside the four or five Fourth Internationals. I can never see the Children of the Prophet (Trotsky not Mohammed, that is) ever getting along together in a single party. In fact, the only way I can see a "broad Left party" getting off the ground is without any of them.

I am in favour of all these groups getting together.