What are musicians worth these days?

[Voley]

I'm thinking since file-sharing became the norm. Has it changed things much?

If you were the drummer in someone reasonably established like The Kaiser Chiefs, say, would you be a millionaire? Or someone relatively new like The Ting Tings? What do you reckon they're worth?

I worked as a filing monkey in a tax office once and we'd get the odd musician's return through. Generally, the amounts were astronomical. I wonder if they still are.

 

[tarannau]

The Ting Tings are worth shit all. Or at least they should be.

 

[Voley]

Ditto The Kaiser Chiefs.

 

[seeformiles]

When I worked in Mortgages in the mid-90s, I processed some house purchases for a few pretty well established musicians and they had to declare their earnings so we could calculate the maximum available to lend. There were two members of the same band - the one who wrote most of the songs declared £130k pa while another non-songwriting member (presumably just collecting performance royalties) declared £85k - so there y'go!

 

[editor]

If you're a non-songwriting drummer in a moderately successful band you're not going to be making a lot of cash, although you're probably having a good time, all the time.

Album sales are a pale shadow of the glory days of the 70s/80s and legal downloads pay a fraction of what musicians might get from a full album.

 

[AverageJoe]

If you're a non-songwriting drummer in a moderately successful band you're not going to be making a lot of cash, although you're probably having a good time, all the time.

Peace and Love. Peace and Love.....

 

[Voley]

Don't gigs pay a bit better these days?

I know traditionally bands never expected to make much playing live but I thought the inflated ticket prices had changed this.

You hear all these stories about bands asking a million to headline Glastonbury and what-have-you.

 

[middle C]

Musicans earn most on loyalties and gigs now don't they?

 

[weepiper]

Your average jobbing musician earns 20% of sod all if my ex is anything to go by.

 

[Voley]

There were two members of the same band - the one who wrote most of the songs declared £130k pa while another non-songwriting member (presumably just collecting performance royalties) declared £85k - so there y'go!

Not massive amounts, are they? A shitload more than I'm ever likely to earn but it's not exactly Rolls Royces driven into swimming pools, is it?

I'm not going to ask who they were but how famous were they?

 

[Silva]

I don't believe it would be possible to have a Gallagher-style enrichment ("when the squares started buying music, I became millionaire four times in a week" or something like that) nowadays. Tours and gigs, as well as merchandise and music placement is where the money is nowadays.

 

[Fruitloop]

People in manufactured bands and the like earn almost nothing, 'cos all of the agency's expenses come out of what they earn, and the remainder doesn't normally add up to much. Most of them are probably on pretty shitty contracts as well.

 

[editor]

Bands often end up owing their record company' a ton of cash too and managers and agencies are all keen for a slice of the action.

 

[plasticene]

The Ting Tings are worth shit all. Or at least they should be.

You reckon? They recorded the album themselves and wrote all the songs, it's been high in the charts for a long time and been a worldwide success. Add to that the royalties they'll have made from heavy radio play and use on tv programmes and adverts (including an Apple campaign), and on top of that they've toured extensively round the world, to large-ish audiences. AND there's only 2 of them to split the money between!

They must be fucking minting it.

 

[skyscraper101]

The songwriters in the band make the most but if you're, say the non-songwriting drummer of a Kaiser Chiefs level band - the best money is to be made while touring.

As all the costs are paid by the record co/promoter, you will be on per diems and so hardly spending anything (food/accomodation etc), so its a bit like being in the navy or something where you end up having loads of money at the end of a big tour having spent very little while away.

The best gig to have (this will be debatable on Urban) is to be say the bass player, or drummer in a band like Coldplay who have an equal share of songwriting credit, do global stadium tours and sell millions of records and have enormous sponsor deals with Apple and suchlike. Obviously Chris Martin has the baggage of fame but I'd be fairly certain the other members could lead a normal enough lifestyle and probably make a heck of a lot of money all the same.

 

[clandestino]

But I thought the drummer was the songwriter in the Kaiser Chiefs? He's probably a bad example.

 

[damnhippie]

a mate of mine nearly joined a well known band as touring guitar player - the pay was a grand a month.

when Andy bell first joined Oasis - not full time - apparently he was on 80 quid a gig. that'll learn him.

there's that essay by steve albini on how a band with a million dollar advance can still sell loads of records and end up broke or in debt. alternatively, there are other ways to make money out being in that position like publishing deal, producer work and i can't think of any others.

 

[AverageJoe]

With manufactured bands they are paid a wage, and dont earn anything from touring. They dont write their own tracks, so there is no residual income to come in, so when bands like SClub7 etc split up they just end up back in a job somewhere or trying to stay in the media limelight by whatever means it takes.

With real bands who write their own stuff, as said above the songwriter earns royalties for songwriting, and the band earn royalties for performance. The amount of a radio airplay royalty depends on the size of the station audience, but if you take into account there are about 200 radio stations in the UK, from Radio 2 being the largest down to numerous small regional station, and you have a record that is on a rotation of say 10 times a day for the 4 weeks that its in the charts *and* you add to that TV (MTV etc), then that money amounts up *real* quick.

Then their are additional performance royalties including when another band does a cover of your song, if its used in an advert or film etc etc etc

My memories of all this are a little hazy though, so I may well be wrong, but thats the kinda gist of it - write yourself a Summer Of 69, Love Is All Around or Wonderwall and you've no worries

 

[matt m]

I think it's true to say that, even with downloads, even with recordings making a tiny fraction of what they used to, mega bands like Coldplay are gonna be OK. It's probably true to say that the bands that aren't on that scale but who still shift albums on a Top 20 or even Top 50 scale are probably OK for money if they're sensible and don't blow it all on coke and supermodels.

What's more interesting for me are all the hundreds of thousands of bands that never get anywhere near that stage. The sort of middleweight bands, that are reasonably successful (in terms of profile, reviews etc), but who will never be on Jools Holland or shortlisted for the Mercury... In other words, all the musicians who've tended to be make the best music... It used to be just about financially viable for indie bands to exist as 'professional' musicians and indie labels to exist as professional self-contained businesses; I'm not sure that's going to be the case for much longer.

And live music/touring is not the panacea everyone always says it is. Sure, venues in the larger size range – from Wembley and O2 down to Carling Academy and the Forum –*can hoik up ticket prices and demand will match it. But lower than that, it seems people aren't interested.

There's a curious mindset developing where somehow it's seen as OK by a punter to spend £20 at a place like the Academy to see a moderately successful band and a support act; but to see 4 bands at a pub down the road would be seen as a rip-off if it cost £10 – a fiver's what's expected, even though everyone knows there's absolutely no way anyone could possibly make any money out of that.

 

[Voley]

Interesting stuff.

I've always thought it'd be the low end of the market that suffered with downloads being effectively free these days. Bearing in mind what matt m says about indie labels and the amounts of money involved, I'm wondering whether accusing a band of selling out is valid any more, if indeed it ever was.

I do wonder whether p2p has stifled the music industry, though. Speaking entirely subjectively, I haven't heard any exciting new music in ages. And everyone from Mott The Hoople to Pavement are reforming. It makes me wonder how much of this is out of a love of music or just financial necessity.

 

[matt m]

Funnily enough, thanks to the internet, it feels like I'm always hearing exciting new music. But, also thanks to the internet, the people making it will never make any money out of it.

They would probably never have made very much money out of it back in the pre-file-sharing days either. But they would have at least made some, that little pittance that pays for the occasional new guitar or whatever.

 

[damnhippie]

on a side note, it's surprising that some successful, visible bands have day jobs.

it's a bit more RAWK than we've been discussing, but the guitarist/singer/songrwiter from hairy rockers Mastodon still works as a roofer when they're not touring. and they sell out big venues regularly worldwide, and have albums on face-out promotions in chain shops, etc.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

a mate of mine nearly joined a well known band as touring guitar player - the pay was a grand a month.

when Andy bell first joined Oasis - not full time - apparently he was on 80 quid a gig. that'll learn him.

there's that essay by steve albini on how a band with a million dollar advance can still sell loads of records and end up broke or in debt. alternatively, there are other ways to make money out being in that position like publishing deal, producer work and i can't think of any others.

read it here

 

[phildwyer]

Musicians can definitely still get rich in the USA. I know one who's absolutely loaded, having sold 10 million albums in the early 00s. He hasn't done much for 10 years but he's still rolling in it.

Then again, every UK muso I've ever met has been pretty broke, usually working a day job. Different sized markets I suppose.

But it's probably a good thing that they can't get too rich anyway--they don't deserve it.

 

[Fez909]

If you were the drummer in someone reasonably established like The Kaiser Chiefs, say, would you be a millionaire?

I know the drummer in the Kaiser Chiefs and he's nowhere near a millionaire.

 

[ska invita]

article that got shared a lot (supposedly) recently about a US band that played a month of sell out gigs and the amount of money they made of it
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2014/11/25/band-just-finished-28-day-tour-made-much
interesting i thought

also a response to that article which picks up on some of the figures

 

[rorymac]

Not specifically re the OP but along similar lines .. I think this is a great speech by Iggy Pop :

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Ringo Star done ok by getting the job because he was more ugly than Pete Best. Lennon when asked if the thought Ringo was the best drummer in the world was supposed to have replied "He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles". Other examples of average musicians that got lucky are Mick Fleetwood & John McVie of Fleetwood Mac, I would think. In fact they done amazingly well, first they had the talent of Peter Green who was so modest he named the band after his backing musicians & then Fleetwood/McVie on the point of giving up in LA met supremely talented Buckingham/Nicks.

Members of manufactured band 1D are supposed to be now worth £15mill each. I don't know if thats true or not?

 

[Ted Striker]

Not specifically re the OP but along similar lines .. I think this is a great speech by Iggy Pop :

That was ace, cheers

 

[JTG]

Starr did accomplish more artistically than the others did though. Those Thomas the Tank Engine voiceovers were ace