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What about this new Mac Pro, then?

teuchter

je suis teuchter
Return to the cheese grater :thumbs:

Screen Shot 2019-06-03 at 21.35.52.jpg

Mac Pro

I'll probably be waiting until I can get one second hand before I consider it as an option, so no hurry for you to give your opinions.
 

elbows

WoeTimer
I did laugh when they revealed it and it was more cheese grater than ever before, and they even added the cheese grater design to the insanely spec'd and priced new monitor.

There are limited things I can say about it, and plenty of things others might say about it that I will dismiss, because its a workstation. Workstation features, workstation price. And workstations are mostly off in their own world when it comes to pricing. Throw in Apples pricing strategy on top of that and we get prices that are distinctly niche.

I was very interested to see what the next mac pro would be, but more from the point of view of getting to judge their changed priorities for the mac pro line after they admitted mistakes with the previous 'trash can' one. Over a decade ago I was able to get a Mac Pro because 'panicked about financial crisis/still had access to easy credit card debt/it was a shade under 2 grand'. But a workstation never really quite fitted my actual dev needs, because really my high-end graphics and other needs are far more in tune with what a powerful gaming pc should be than what a workstation is. Fast forward ten years and it wasnt hard to judge that it would be a workstation class device and that the price would be more than double the entry price of 11 years ago. So I built a stupidly powerful pc, and got a mac mini, instead of waiting another 7 months to see what the new mac pro was. I havent even looked for mac pro uk prices today, but I already know that I made the right choice.

I was trying to do more than one thing at once when watching the keynote and I havent checked whether I got all the info right yet. I think I heard the rare sound of an Apple keynote audience being shocked when they announced the price of the pro stand for the new monitor. Was it really $999? lol, I should go and check. It makes me wonder how much the optional wheels for the new mac pro that they mentioned will be.

Its actually a good thing the new Mac Pro is a poor fit for my needs, for it will not only save me from wasting money on a whole new scale, but the cheese grater design looks like a real migraine risk for me. I aint gonna drone on about my migraines in this post, but certain forms of repeating patterns seem to be one of my many triggers, and so I get paranoid when I look at them.
 
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elbows

WoeTimer
Ha I checked and the pro monitor stand is indeed $999. I feel a new milestone has been reached in terms of price related stuff people can take the piss out of Apple for.

I feel like a child again, reading every page of computer magazines as a 1980's home computer revolution child, including every advert, looking at all the exotic machines that I would never see myself let alone own. Well, not quite.

Away from these workstation world prices I got good value out of today, plenty of stuff that adds features to Apple stuff I already spent my money on. Using the ipad pro with apple pencil as a 2nd monitor/graphics tablet for the mac is something I cannot wait to try. So I shall probably muck up both by trying the developer betas. I suppose I should at least back up this mac mini first.

Unless my career suddenly starts to resemble a career, I think the only place I am ever going to see one of those mac pro's is if I ever visit an Apple store again, and I havent done that for years.
 

teuchter

je suis teuchter
I've long been a fan of buying macs second hand (price more sensible, they tend to keep working) and I'm wondering if the launch of this will cause the price of second-hand 'trash can' pros to drop, and if so if there's any sense in looking at getting one of those (I currently use a fairly heavily updated 2009 Pro).
 

elbows

WoeTimer
I've long been a fan of buying macs second hand (price more sensible, they tend to keep working) and I'm wondering if the launch of this will cause the price of second-hand 'trash can' pros to drop, and if so if there's any sense in looking at getting one of those (I currently use a fairly heavily updated 2009 Pro).
I'm not good with paying attention to 2nd hand prices so I cant say, the theory seems good though!

As for whether its worth it, the 2008 Mac Pro I had was long in the tooth in terms of general CPU performance, bus speeds, connectivity. But you might already have upgraded the connectivity a bit (eg pci usb 3 card). So it might come down to whatever the processor and bus speed variations are, unless you need thunderbolt stuff. And graphics could be the deal-breaker depending on what you actually need and to what extent you beefed up the graphics in your existing mac pro. The graphics options for the trash can are one of the reasons I never seriously considered that machine.
 

elbows

WoeTimer
The drive speed on the trashcan might be an advantage of that one for you too, again obviously depending on how you souped up your existing mac pro. eg the trash can should be notably faster compared to SATA SSDs stuck in the old mac pros standard drive bays, but perhaps there was a pci card based m.2 drive possibility for the old mac pro that you utilised.
 

teuchter

je suis teuchter
I'm not good with paying attention to 2nd hand prices so I cant say, the theory seems good though!

As for whether its worth it, the 2008 Mac Pro I had was long in the tooth in terms of general CPU performance, bus speeds, connectivity. But you might already have upgraded the connectivity a bit (eg pci usb 3 card). So it might come down to whatever the processor and bus speed variations are, unless you need thunderbolt stuff. And graphics could be the deal-breaker depending on what you actually need and to what extent you beefed up the graphics in your existing mac pro. The graphics options for the trash can are one of the reasons I never seriously considered that machine.
3d modelling and a bit of rendering are mainly what i need computing power for. I've got a fairly decent graphics card. Probably the 'sensible' option for me is to go over to PC too... however it gives me a headache to think about changing my whole system over and have to learn how to keep on top of a new OS.
 

sim667

Licking windows on the 303 bus.
I'm not good with paying attention to 2nd hand prices so I cant say, the theory seems good though!

As for whether its worth it, the 2008 Mac Pro I had was long in the tooth in terms of general CPU performance, bus speeds, connectivity. But you might already have upgraded the connectivity a bit (eg pci usb 3 card). So it might come down to whatever the processor and bus speed variations are, unless you need thunderbolt stuff. And graphics could be the deal-breaker depending on what you actually need and to what extent you beefed up the graphics in your existing mac pro. The graphics options for the trash can are one of the reasons I never seriously considered that machine.
I still have a 2008 mac pro, and apart from ram upgrades and SSD upgrades its still trundling along..

You can't say that for most 11 year old machines
 

neonwilderness

What would Badgers do?
I've long been a fan of buying macs second hand (price more sensible, they tend to keep working) and I'm wondering if the launch of this will cause the price of second-hand 'trash can' pros to drop, and if so if there's any sense in looking at getting one of those (I currently use a fairly heavily updated 2009 Pro).
It’ll be worth keeping an eye on the refurb/clearance section of the Apple store too. I bought my last two MBPs from there and they were both pretty much as new. It’s a bit more expensive than buying second hand though.
 

teuchter

je suis teuchter
It’ll be worth keeping an eye on the refurb/clearance section of the Apple store too. I bought my last two MBPs from there and they were both pretty much as new. It’s a bit more expensive than buying second hand though.
Yup I have a good look around there each time I'm buying.

Usually I go for the adrenaline that comes with buying something off ebay for quite a bit less and may or may not turn out to be a good idea though.
 

elbows

WoeTimer
Pricks with too much money (and little sense) ?
Its a workstation, just because loads of people arent very aware of workstation class hardware and the prices that have long been associated with this segment doesnt make this untrue or something unique to Apple. There are other companies that make workstations, Intel has long made expensive chips for this segment, etc.

I do think it is reasonable to note that there is a second market for these Apple machines, people who have more money than they know what to do with and like to spend it on the highest end Apple stuff, even though they technically dont need a workstation at all. But its unfair to lump every Mac pro user into this category because workstations are a real thing, albeit one thats normally quite invisible unless you have a career in some particular industry that uses workstations.
 

cybershot

Well-Known Member
Indeed, there's plenty of similar Lenovo/HP/Dell type hardware aimed at the same section that even when several years old will command a £400 figure on eBay, which is what, the standard price you'd pay for a decentish brand new consumer based system.

Which is not what these products are marketed at.
 

mauvais

change has become unavoidable
I understand that there is a workstation market for house-price hardware, be it Apple or Dell or whatever, but I don't really understand why it survives. Why hasn't it died a cloud-shaped death along with self-hosting servers and all the other historical concentrations of local computing power?
 

High Voltage

In the top 97% of Urban's most interesting posters
I can remember the first Mac work station I bought for work - back in the late 80s and I've double checked this with a Apple employee and a 33 mhz(??) machine cost ITR £16k and that's without the monitor
 

teuchter

je suis teuchter
I understand that there is a workstation market for house-price hardware, be it Apple or Dell or whatever, but I don't really understand why it survives. Why hasn't it died a cloud-shaped death along with self-hosting servers and all the other historical concentrations of local computing power?
Is it because people don't want to be entirely reliant on the internet never going down, in order to do their work?
 

cybershot

Well-Known Member
I understand that there is a workstation market for house-price hardware, be it Apple or Dell or whatever, but I don't really understand why it survives. Why hasn't it died a cloud-shaped death along with self-hosting servers and all the other historical concentrations of local computing power?
They are extremely useful for developers, film editors, true 4K graphic manipulation, sys admins who want to run full lab environments at home that they can snapshot easily, you can't do that stuff in the cloud, the bandwidth alone costs to much to even do an Azure lab setup, unless you do MS pre-built labs which die after 90 days and you have to start again.

I've got a Poweredge Dell server at home running VMWare and 11 Virtual Machines in a 'lab' Microsoft AD environment, with a full ConfigMgr set up as well, for me to play about with technologies before I unleash or propose them as solutions at work, of which then it goes into a dev environment there before even getting near production.

Sadly our dev environment still relies on ther people being in charge of firewall rules and other such things so is a bit of a hinderance, in this case I can do what the hell I want, make sure it works, blow it away, start again, document it properly etc etc, then when I get to the dev environment at work, I actually have a clue what I'm doing.
 
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